There is no conflicting or clashing for those who accept Paul as an Apostle of Christ. Only by rejecting all Pauline scriptures (and therefore cherry picking) can one craft a doctrine based on "works" getting you into heaven!
Cherry Picking is taking a quote out of context. Rejecting Paul is a Theological position.
I agree. But that's not relevant because that doesn't say that works plays a role in salvation! It doesn't because works is only an expression of faith, not vice versa.
Nowhere does the Bible remotely say that Works are some "Fruit" of an expression of faith. Quite the opposite.
I am not "anti-works" and for you to make that association with my argument means that you are missing the point. Jesus was NOT all about works! That was PART of what he taught, yes, but that doesn't mean works plays a role in salvation. Jesus tells us how to attain salvation and it is not by works. It is by being born again. That is an act of faith, not a work!
So Jesus taught works, but it doesn't play a role in Salvation. When Jesus said those who won't help their brothers will burn in hell, that had nothing to do with Salvation? When Jesus said those who who are "Doers of lawlessness" will be rejected, that had nothing to do with works? Jesus tells you how to attain salvation and it's through works, anyone who says differently has either not actually read what Jesus says or is viciously lying about what he said, and as sure as God lives, Jesus did in fact teach that works were important to your future fate.
On the contrary, to say that "works IS what it's all about" or that Jesus was "all about works" requires all those things. You've already admitted that by rejecting every scripture written by Paul. That's how you make it "all about works", you cherry pick the bible!
Again, you don't understand what Cherry picking means. The issue of the clash between Paul and Jesus is a big controversy that rages to this day. Numerous Christians reject Paul. They are not Cherry Picking. They are being selective, yes. But why do you reject the Catholic Apocrypha? Why do you reject the Book of Enoch which is canonical to the Ethiopians? It's the same thing. What you may fail to understand is that "The Bible" is not just one book. If I don't go by the Pericope Adulterae because I believe it's interpolated, am I cherry picking? If you reject the Shepherd of Hermas which was canonical to the authors of the Sinaiticus, are you cherry picking? Also, you failed to address what I said that Paul's works themselves are heavily pro-works.
Actually Jesus doesn't say anything about "burning in hell" in that largely metaphorical passage (concerning the sheep and the goats). It says they will go away to "eternal punishment" (which is death by the way). Secondly, the scripture reinforces the notion that works is an expression of faith. It does not mean that works will save us!
Okay, you CAN argue that "Works are an expression of faith", but all that means is that those who don't do works are not true in faith, so thus, it's your works either way in the end. The interpretation of "Age long punishment" as relating to the "second death" is an entirely different ballgame of debate, but the fact is clear: Your works are 100% related to your judgment. Revelation is clear about this too.
No, actually its very easy to see that scripture for what it really is, a contrast between those who do evil acts and those who do not.
The "Evil Acts" are the works of lawlessness, which means "Against the Law". Thus, those who do not obey the Law are those who commit "evil acts". Those who commit "evil acts" will not be saved. By your own logic of faith being the seed of good works, we can see that only those who do good works have such faith.
That's not what it says!
Revelation 3:15-16
15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
What do you think that verse means?
It doesn't say anything about "lack of good deeds". It says that he knows them! And actually, now that you bring it up, this passage reinforces my point about how deeds do NOT save you.
Wrong, the passage very well enforces the idea that your deeds are what you are judged by. You didn't even provide your interpretation of that, and the way you think it "Enforces" this view is pretty wacky. What do you think "luke warm" implies exactly?
What it is actually saying is that people who do good deeds and think they are saved are blind!
I guess we can interpret anything we want from the text regardless if it explicitly says so or not. You're also failing to look at the preceding verses to get the gist of the context.
They are not saved because they do good deeds.
Nothing close to this is hinted at by the verse. Only by an extreme confirmation bias that interprets whatever it wants into the text regardless of what the previous verses say.
The scripture condemns the self-righteous!
Where? It condemns HYPOCRITES.
People who go around donating to charities and then feel content that they are now "saved" because of it are the LUKEWARM Christians.
It's rather difficult to discuss biblical verses when one can make them say whatever they want to say regardless of the preceding contexts.
That's why Jesus says I wish you were hot OR cold. Because even "cold" Christians (who do no good works) realize that they are doing something wrong and would be driven to correct their mistake.
You may have a grain of truth in this regard, but if you look at the preceding verses, the other churches are being condemned for evil practices. So why not this one?
Lukewarm Christians on the other hand are those who are "comfortable" with themselves because of their deeds.
That is one particular way of looking at it. However Jesus says one must STRIVE for the narrow gate. Thus, by being complacent, that's not striving. In order to "Win the race" as even Paul says, one must do good works.
This anti-works mentality essentially rejects everything Paul says and cherry picks a few things from him out of context, as I said.
They think that they are saved because they do good works, and therefore don't realize that they need repentance, forgiveness and salvation because in addition to their works they are also sinners. These are the people that Jesus was talking about in Matthew 7.
Thinking you are already saved is indeed a blasphemous doctrine, as Jesus says only those who "ENDURE UNTIL THE END" will be saved. Do you think "enduring until the end" merely means "Believing Jesus is your savior"?
The word "Evildoers" is "Doers of lawlessness". The word "Lawlessness" in Jewish context is one who disobeys the Law. The "Man of Lawlessness" who is an antichrist is one who rejects the obedience of the Law.
These are the blind people that Revelation 3 is referencing.
And who are the people of the other churches that Revelation condemns? Like I said, we can interpret it to mean whatever we want I guess.
Revelation 3:17-18
17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Again, I agree you have a piece of the truth, but you're failing to understand why Jesus would say he wished they were "HOT" as well as "or cold". It's about those who are content with their works and aren't striving to do more. That's the ONLY way of interpreting it.
And in case you're not aware of the metaphorical content of Revelation,
Oh no I thought it was all literal for a second there.
it's not literally saying that they are "poor, blind and naked" or that they need to become "rich with gold" or wear "white clothes". The story is an analogy for those who think they are okay with God and don't need to do anything else special, but in reality are in need of salvation but don't realize it (because they are lukewarm).
You have it halfway, but it's about those who don't think they need to do more. You're keenly ignoring the "I wish you were HOT" part. He wishes they were "Or cold" as well as you say, because it would help them realize they aren't doing enough.
I'm not, that's what YOU are doing. And it's what the doctrine of good deeds getting you into heaven in fact requires!
As sure as God lives, those who say works are irrelevant in your salvation are those who twist and distort what the Gospels say and they will have hell to pay in the day of judgment for their ways of changing the very meaning of Jesus's many teachings as well as that of the epistles of John and James and Jude and Peter (all of which I referenced that you ignored), and again, you completely ignored what I said about how even Paul himself implies works are heavily involved, such as what I said about "Their religion is worthless".
And where exactly did I ever say that? Oh, that's right, I didn't. This is another straw man argument!
Ummm, if I'm not mistaken, you yourself trounced the idea of the "Doctrine of good deeds getting you into heaven".
Even Hebrews 10:26-29 IS ABOUT REFRAINING FROM SIN ANY LONGER OR YOU'LL BURN IN FIERY INDIGNATION.
