Is hell too harsh?

[Brynhild]

First of all, the fact that he is God gives him the right. Secondly, NOBODY is perfect, but nobody is put into eternal suffering for "not being perfect". That's not even what the bible says, so you're just wrong.

I think it's fair that he gives us the choice.

We won't remember the wicked when we are in heaven, nor do we want them in heaven. I think it's totally fair and appropriate for God to separate the wicked from the righteous. Do you think it's fair that people who are evil should be given the same reward as people who are good? What kind of God rewards evil with eternal paradise? I find that idea sick personally!

I've heard preachers talk about serial killers who accept jesus and are saved and go to heaven. I think killing os pretty evil (but your god and his followers in the old testament seemed to kill alot...). So if a serial killer can get into heaven, doesnt that defeat your arguement? Also, I dont care if he's god. If hes sick and sadistic and makes his creation suffer on earth and possibly in the afterlife, he doesn't deserve worship. Also the bible mwntions predestination and that some are destined for hell. Sounds sick to me. I'd rather worship Satan. I think he had it right when he defied god.

 

[Ouroboros]

It does not seem unfair to me. It seems to me that God is completely fair and gives everyone the absolute choice and freedom to have an extended capacity to fulfill the deepest longings of their heart for eternity.

Eternal punishment for wrong belief in a short, finite time span.

In criminal justice system, it would be considered excessive, cruel, and unusual.

You would be considered a deviant if you treated your kids that way only because they didn't believe you when you said mom was their savior from your punishment. It's twisted.

Some desire to be with God forever and some desire to be apart from God forever and these desires will be granted. So if you prefer to be in hell away from God I believe He will honor your desire and allow to experience separation from Him to the fullest.

So it doesn't matter which religion belong to as long as you desire to be with God forever? Who ever desire to be apart from God? I don't think anyone wants that. It's just that a lot of people don't believe in such a God. It's not that they wouldn't want to be with God if he existed, so they don't desire to be apart from God. They just don't believe God exists (at least that kind of God).

I don't think God works that way.

 

[Ashoka]

Eternal punishment for wrong belief in a short, finite time span.

Oh, that's okay, because it's "justice."

 

[Ouroboros]

Why doesn't anyone respond to we Christians who don't believe in a literal hell? Every time I state it, it is completely ignored by almost everyone. Only one person responded to it and he was a Christian. I don't worship a sadistic God.

I will give you a response.

I think it's very encouraging to hear about Christians who reject the idea of eternal torment and punishment. People like you give a little hope to our future, a little light in the darkness. I'm not Christian, but I respect anyone in any religion who takes a reasonable, tolerant, and kind stance to their faith.

I just wish there were more of you, or at least the group you represent were more outspoken and influential. Unfortunately, the loudest Christians are those who preach damnation, hell, fire, brimstone, and a vengeful God. They tend to get the most attention. Probably because it's more fun to read about the wacky ones instead of the reasonable ones. I'm certain this is the case for any religious or non-religious group. The squeaky wheels get the grease, as the phrase goes.

 

[Rapture Era]

I've heard preachers talk about serial killers who accept jesus and are saved and go to heaven. I think killing os pretty evil (but your god and his followers in the old testament seemed to kill alot...). So if a serial killer can get into heaven, doesnt that defeat your arguement? Also, I dont care if he's god. If hes sick and sadistic and makes his creation suffer on earth and possibly in the afterlife, he doesn't deserve worship. Also the bible mwntions predestination and that some are destined for hell. Sounds sick to me. I'd rather worship Satan. I think he had it right when he defied god.

What it tells me is that no matter what you have done in your life, if you truely repent ,God will forgive you! Like Jesus did with the thief on the cross next to him. That sounds like a pretty loving God to me! But you go ahead and worship satan, see where that gets you! It wouldnt matter if your questions were answered or not. You have made up your mind, so go with it, full steam ahead!:canoe:

 

[Ouroboros]

Oh, that's okay, because it's "justice."

I know, right? It's terrible.

It's very difficult to see that God is supposedly kind, good, and loving, while being just by being harsh, angry, and vengeful. The former shows a good God that we would love to love, but the latter shows a very repugnant and detestable God who doesn't deserve worship. It shows a God full of sin...

 

[Ashoka]

I know, right? It's terrible.

It's very difficult to see that God is supposedly kind, good, and loving, while being just by being harsh, angry, and vengeful. The former shows a good God that we would love to love, but the latter shows a very repugnant and detestable God who doesn't deserve worship. It shows a God full of sin...

Hence why I think he is an asura. He displays all the qualities of one; wrath, jealousy, pride, hatred, violence, and so forth.

 

[Riverwolf]

What it tells me is that no matter what you have done in your life, if you truely repent ,God will forgive you! Like Jesus did with the thief on the cross next to him. That sounds like a pretty loving God to me!

Sounds like a tyrant to me.

But you go ahead and worship satan, see where that gets you!

He/she(don't know) doesn't.

 

[Gudrun]

I know, right? It's terrible.

It's very difficult to see that God is supposedly kind, good, and loving, while being just by being harsh, angry, and vengeful. The former shows a good God that we would love to love, but the latter shows a very repugnant and detestable God who doesn't deserve worship. It shows a God full of sin...

Thats my point. God isnt good. Hes full of sin and evil amd hate. He is the destestable one who could snap his fingers and make everything perfect but doesnt. The one who time and time again demands bloodshed and death and suffering to appease his tantrums and petty jealousy. The one who could appear to us and end all religious wars and confusion but doesn't. So ill go ahead and worship other gods and satan. At least they admit if they're not perfect.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Hell was never created for people. It was created for the devil and his angles. We as human beings were created perfect to be with God forever but God also didnt create us as robots either. He created us with a free will to choose. Because of those choices in the garden, everyone of us is born into sin destined to go to hell. Here's the good news. God knowing this and not wanting anyone to parish in hell did something amazing! He sacrificed His own Son Jesus to pay the penalty in our place. He offers us a free gift of eternal life with Him. In the bible, the book of Romans chapter 10 verse 9 God tells us this; "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." The whole reason Jesus died on the cross was because God loved you so much he wants to spend all of eternity with you in a place beyond what words can describe, Heaven! What greater love is there than that? Now tell me, what is keeping you from accepting His free gift?

Satan hates God. He also hates His creation of all of us as human beings! Do you really think Satan wants you to be close to God and spend all of eternity in Heaven? Satan wants to pull you down with him! Over thousands of years satan has been hard at work creating other religions and belief systems to keep you away from the most important one of all, accepting what God offers to you. But, its your choice. He isnt going to force Himself on you. So when people say how could a loving God send people to hell, He isnt! Its your choice to go there. Everyone who ends up there is because they chose to by rejecting the only way out! So, now, again, what is keeping you from choosing Heaven over Hell? I dont know, but its your choice while you are still alive. Once you die, its too late! Because we never know when we will die, its something to think about very seriously!

Why am I responsible for someone else's actions? There's nothing fair about that.

The way I see it, this point of view basically amounts to god holding a gun to your head saying "believe in me, praise and worship me, do what I tell you to do, or suffer in hell for all eternity." Am I really making a choice there?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I see only two choices...living for self will or living for God's will. If it is God's will that I live for then I am choosing Him over self, if He wants to bless with the wonders of a heavenly reward that's up to Him.

How about living for your family, or the other people in the world? Is that not a third choice?

 

[Rapture Era]

I will give you a response.

I think it's very encouraging to hear about Christians who reject the idea of eternal torment and punishment. People like you give a little hope to our future, a little light in the darkness. I'm not Christian, but I respect anyone in any religion who takes a reasonable, tolerant, and kind stance to their faith.

I just wish there were more of you, or at least the group you represent were more outspoken and influential. Unfortunately, the loudest Christians are those who preach damnation, hell, fire, brimstone, and a vengeful God. They tend to get the most attention. Probably because it's more fun to read about the wacky ones instead of the reasonable ones. I'm certain this is the case for any religious or non-religious group. The squeaky wheels get the grease, as the phrase goes.

Yeah, how bout the ones who want to kill you for not believing the same way they do! Their a loving bunch!

 

[Ouroboros]

Hence why I think he is an asura. He displays all the qualities of one; wrath, jealousy, pride, hatred, violence, and so forth.

Exactly.

Just think of Gal 5
"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

Or from the Amplified Bible:
"22 But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
23 Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[a]that can bring a charge]."

Is God spirit? Then wouldn't God have the fruits of the spirit? If his patience is eternal and infinite, then a finite and short time on Earth shouldn't be the final cause for his judgment.

If someone doesn't believe in God because his/her life led to the point of no belief, or if his/her religion is different, it shouldn't matter. If God is just, belief, faith, religion, shouldn't matter.

 

[SkepticThinker]

First of all, the fact that he is God gives him the right. Secondly, NOBODY is perfect, but nobody is put into eternal suffering for "not being perfect". That's not even what the bible says, so you're just wrong.

I think it's fair that he gives us the choice.

We won't remember the wicked when we are in heaven, nor do we want them in heaven. I think it's totally fair and appropriate for God to separate the wicked from the righteous. Do you think it's fair that people who are evil should be given the same reward as people who are good? What kind of God rewards evil with eternal paradise? I find that idea sick personally!

But they way I understand it, a wicked person can get into heaven, if they accept Jesus Christ as their savior. While at the same time a good person could end up in hell simply by not accepting Christ. I find that idea sick and immoral.

 

[Ashoka]

But they way I understand it, a wicked person can get into heaven, if they accept Jesus Christ as their savior. While at the same time a good person could end up in hell simply by not accepting Christ. I find that idea sick and immoral.

Glad to know I'm not the only one!

 

[Riverwolf]

Glad to know I'm not the only one!

It reminds me of the bad Persian King guy from 300.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Glad to know I'm not the only one!

Me too!

 

[Ouroboros]

Hence why I think he is an asura. He displays all the qualities of one; wrath, jealousy, pride, hatred, violence, and so forth.

Haven't heard about the term "asura" before. So it's like an anti-god?

 

[Ouroboros]

Thats my point. God isnt good. Hes full of sin and evil amd hate. He is the destestable one who could snap his fingers and make everything perfect but doesnt. The one who time and time again demands bloodshed and death and suffering to appease his tantrums and petty jealousy. The one who could appear to us and end all religious wars and confusion but doesn't. So ill go ahead and worship other gods and satan. At least they admit if they're not perfect.

Yeah. I know what you mean.

Personally, I changed my view on God. The iron age, tyrant god isn't applicable to modern times and is not reasonable in general.

 

[Riverwolf]

Haven't heard about the term "asura" before. So it's like an anti-god?

In basic terms, an asura (pronounced "ah-shur-ah") in modern Hinduism is a demon.

Historically and linguistically it's a bit more complicated than that, but that's all you need to know for now.