Is homosexuality a choice?

[Maimonides]

What Your Brain Desires = Your True Nature

Eh, its not always that simple. With respect to sexual orientation yes, there is physical evidence of some genetic underlining. However if your brain desires alcohol I don't know if your hotwired to be an alcoholic, perhaps you just like to drink. I am just addressing the genetic factors of sexual orientation.

 

[Diederick]

Life does not begin at birth and if a person is born with gay/lesbian tendencies it is because they "chose" to develop those character traits during the millennia’s of their pre-mortal existence.

Unprovable theory, unlikely scenario.

If a person is suffering under the weight of their own sexuality they still have nobody to blame but themselves and, being subject to the commandments of God, having exorcised their free agency to develop their own character traits, it can be rightfully said that they are still subject to the consequences of their actions via the judgment of a perfectly just God.

What are these "free agents" we are exorcising? And isn't exorcism strictly the expelling of demons, not "free agents" (whatever those may be)?

In short, trying to blame God for your own foolishness will not wash, it never has and it never will. This is not a game, we are being tried and judged to see the strength and weaknesses of who we chose to become "BEFORE" we were born into mortality. Our sexual tendencies most certainly were a choice we made for ourselves and must now, good or bad, live with the consequences.

So let me pose this question: how does it help God (what does God gain) from a person deliberately going against his or her nature and forming a heterosexual union, without the love and sexual pleasure that is supposed to accompany a human relationship? What good does that restriction of pleasure and harmful force do?

And don't tell me its God's rules, I know they are (in the eyes of many). WHY are they God's rules, what made God establish them?

 

[Midnight Pete]

Eh, its not always that simple. With respect to sexual orientation yes, there is physical evidence of some genetic underlining. However if your brain desires alcohol I don't know if your hotwired to be an alcoholic, perhaps you just like to drink. I am just addressing the genetic factors of sexual orientation.

Actually, alocoholics are genetically predisposed to alcoholism. They're wired that way. Just as gays ands lesbians have the neuro-anatomy to be who they are. Some things we can control about ourselves, other things we are helpless to control.

 

[JustAsking]

Actually, alocoholics are genetically predisposed to alcoholism. They're wired that way. Just as gays ands lesbians have the neuro-anatomy to be who they are. Some things we can control about ourselves, other things we are helpless to control.

A genetic predisposition is not _the_ cause. It's just something that pushes the probabilities a little closer towards that end of the scale. Comparing alcoholism to homosexuality is apples and corvettes.

 

[Midnight Pete]

A genetic predisposition is not _the_ cause. It's just something that pushes the probabilities a little closer towards that end of the scale. Comparing alcoholism to homosexuality is apples and corvettes.

Agreed, but I didn't intend to compare alcoholism to homosexuality. That was not my intention.

 

[Evandr]

how does it help God (what does God gain) from a person deliberately going against his or her nature and forming a heterosexual union, without the love and sexual pleasure that is supposed to accompany a human relationship?

God already has it all, we can afford Him nothing but to become like him ouselves and gain all that he has including the ability to become parents to our own spiritual offspring. That requires adhearance to a perfect plan, of plan of progression, of happiness; changing that plan would make it less than perfect.

We were undoubtedly warned of the ensuing difficulties we would have to face in mortality and although our Heavenly Father would like to be able to accomodate us by bending the rules for our sake He cannot. For me it would be better to have no relationship at all than to engage in activity that is forbidden but the call is ours, we can do as we want but choices have consequences. I suppose that if you are not going to keep the commandments to begin with then it may not matter much but don't expect me or the moral majority to give an approving nod because your example can and will influence those around you and that is why I take such a hard line. Do what you will with your own eternities but when it comes to your lifestyle trying to entice someone else to go down the same road then I can and will stand up to countert your point of view. This goes beyond the scope of the individual and sexual preferences, it extends to what we, as a group, are teaching the upcoming generations.

 

[Diederick]

*post fail*

 

[Diederick]

God already has it all, we can afford Him nothing but to become like him ouselves and gain all that he has including the ability to become parents to our own spiritual offspring. That requires adhearance to a perfect plan, of plan of progression, of happiness; changing that plan would make it less than perfect.

If 'perfect' means what I think it does, I don't see what the harm would be if people fell in love with someone of the same gender and lived a happy and healthy life together. Of course spiritual offspring would pose a problem if it is to be acquired by the vulgar means of the world we live in; but then I don't think 'spiritual children' would actually be produced by regular intercourse - be it in a next life.

... This goes beyond the scope of the individual and sexual preferences, it extends to what we, as a group, are teaching the upcoming generations.

Sexuality is not a preference, that would imply choice. Sexuality is an orientation. And that is the crux of your whole paragraph: sexuality is not a choice and cannot be changed, people who understand the human mind say so (all respectable organizations of mental health professionals).

That last paragraph of yours is all what I hoped it would not be: a plain citation of the rules. I already know what Holy Books say... it doesn't concern me. What concerns me is what difference it makes to God whether someone is gay or straight. Why he would care. It's not like it's bad for people to fall in love with someone of the same gender... so I'm puzzled, you see.

And I guess we both take offence then if one of us is trying to persuade someone to go with our 'lifestyle'. I'm quite opposed to common religion, especially Abrahamic(-ish) religions, for quite objective reasons. I'm not sure I can say the same about your objection to people being at peace with their sexual orientation.

 

[Maimonides]

Actually, alocoholics are genetically predisposed to alcoholism. They're wired that way. Just as gays ands lesbians have the neuro-anatomy to be who they are. Some things we can control about ourselves, other things we are helpless to control.

True alcoholics can pass on genes to make their offspring genetically predisposed but its.not a gurantee. My father was an alcoholic. I am not nor do I drink. Alcoholism is not just genetic but a conditioned process

 

[methylatedghosts]

I am sorry but your arguement falls flat. there is nothign else you can do that your family church and friends would abandon you for. Your told you're going to hell,oh and there are people out there that hate you so much they want to kill you. Again, no one would choose to be gay. It's illogical, and I am sorry you're easily offended....

I would not choose to be different to who I am today.

ergo... I would choose to be who I am

I would choose to be gay/bi/pan

 

[Maimonides]

I just noticed one of the other members made a similar comment.

 

[Midnight Pete]

True alcoholics can pass on genes to make their offspring genetically predisposed but its.not a gurantee. My father was an alcoholic. I am not nor do I drink. Alcoholism is not just genetic but a conditioned process

Then why do only some people become alcoholics and not others if the conditioned process is widely in effect?

 

[Maimonides]

Then why do only some people become alcoholics and not others if the conditioned process is widely in effect?

There are many variables perhaps people choose not to drink often. Maybe others aren't having personal problems in their life and don't resort to drugs like some do it's hard to pinpoint a specific thing.

 

[Midnight Pete]

There are many variables perhaps people choose not to drink often. Maybe others aren't having personal problems in their life and don't resort to drugs like some do it's hard to pinpoint a specific thing.

Yeah, like how a person can have a certain food allergy and never know it until they ate that certain food.

 

[Maimonides]

Yeah, like how a person can have a certain food allergy and never know it until they ate that certain food.

Yeah well food allergies and alcoholism are perhaps far fetched realities from sexual orientation.

 

[jimdand]

Well, Corkscrew: You've read the replies.

In my opinion, you have one of the finest minds of the 15th Century. Why not stay there, where you belong?

Homosexuality ---- a "choice" --- excuse me? You're talking about "choice" as though it's a life-style. Going to Vegas and gambling --- that's a CHOICE. Choosing whether or not to go to Harvard? That's a CHOICE. Homosexuality? THAT is NOT a choice. I live in the arts community and have several gay friends. It has been my finding that NOT ONE OF THEM EVER "chose" to be homosexual.

What has, apparently, escaped you, in your stupidity is that you don't understand the human equation. Additionally, you are not "up on" current medical evidence: for example, Johns Hopkins University (you HAVE heard of this U, have you not?) conducted an extensive reseach that shows that homosexuals are born with a different brain pattern than their hetero counterparts. Hopefully (and I'm sure it does for most of us) that proves that gays are "born" --- it's NOT a matter of choice.

Let me put it in a way that you, stupid, MIGHT understand: O.K. -- you're straight. So, I tell you to go into a room and turn on "a light switch" and are now gay. You think you could DO this? Vis-a-vis: I'm gay, thus I'm going to go into the same room and turn on the switch --- and, voila, I'm now "straight"??? Excuse me? I DON'T THINK SO.

Not only is this ridiculous proclamation ridicuous --- it's obscene. How STUPID does it get.

Your post is not worthy of this forum. IF you are a Christian, would Jesus not come down and say unto you that you: "Have not followed my teachings" --- for it is Jesus who reached out to the disenfranchised: the lepers, the blind, the sick, the prostitutes, the homosexuals, the criminals, and all others whom were relegated "unfit for society". It is he who understood, forgave and gave love to those whom were born "under a different star" and were given a different path in life to follow.

So sorry that you're too STUPID to understand this. You have, in my opinion, the IQ of a salad bar. Again --- stay in the 15th Century, where you belong. By the way: how many "witches" have you condemned to death, by hanging or burning at the stake? I'm confident: many.

How STUPID does it get ??

jimdand

 

[Maimonides]

IQ of a salad bar? Ouch that is harsh

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Well, Corkscrew: You've read the replies.

In my opinion, you have one of the finest minds of the 15th Century. Why not stay there, where you belong?

Homosexuality ---- a "choice" --- excuse me? You're talking about "choice" as though it's a life-style. Going to Vegas and gambling --- that's a CHOICE. Choosing whether or not to go to Harvard? That's a CHOICE. Homosexuality? THAT is NOT a choice. I live in the arts community and have several gay friends. It has been my finding that NOT ONE OF THEM EVER "chose" to be homosexual.

What has, apparently, escaped you, in your stupidity is that you don't understand the human equation. Additionally, you are not "up on" current medical evidence: for example, Johns Hopkins University (you HAVE heard of this U, have you not?) conducted an extensive reseach that shows that homosexuals are born with a different brain pattern than their hetero counterparts. Hopefully (and I'm sure it does for most of us) that proves that gays are "born" --- it's NOT a matter of choice.

Let me put it in a way that you, stupid, MIGHT understand: O.K. -- you're straight. So, I tell you to go into a room and turn on "a light switch" and are now gay. You think you could DO this? Vis-a-vis: I'm gay, thus I'm going to go into the same room and turn on the switch --- and, voila, I'm now "straight"??? Excuse me? I DON'T THINK SO.

Not only is this ridiculous proclamation ridicuous --- it's obscene. How STUPID does it get.

Your post is not worthy of this forum. IF you are a Christian, would Jesus not come down and say unto you that you: "Have not followed my teachings" --- for it is Jesus who reached out to the disenfranchised: the lepers, the blind, the sick, the prostitutes, the homosexuals, the criminals, and all others whom were relegated "unfit for society". It is he who understood, forgave and gave love to those whom were born "under a different star" and were given a different path in life to follow.

So sorry that you're too STUPID to understand this. You have, in my opinion, the IQ of a salad bar. Again --- stay in the 15th Century, where you belong. By the way: how many "witches" have you condemned to death, by hanging or burning at the stake? I'm confident: many.

How STUPID does it get ??

jimdand

did you read any of the replies? like this one for instance:

Thinking on it, this just reaffirms my belief that being gay is not a choice. If being gay were a choice; that would mean that every person could and would intimately desire a man or a woman; the persons gender would no longer even be a player.

and the many others in this thread that has Corkscrew explaining that this was an experience he was having with a friend who's opinion is that homosexuality is a choice?
if you had done some reading would be singing a slightly different tune, and you wouldn't resort to personal attacks rather than logical argument.

if this thread is below the caliber that is appropriate for the board - then your reply is outrageously more absurd.
kinda makes you think that the salad bar comment could be redirected back at it's speaker.

 

[AxisMundi]

God already has it all, we can afford Him nothing but to become like him ouselves and gain all that he has including the ability to become parents to our own spiritual offspring. That requires adhearance to a perfect plan, of plan of progression, of happiness; changing that plan would make it less than perfect.

We were undoubtedly warned of the ensuing difficulties we would have to face in mortality and although our Heavenly Father would like to be able to accomodate us by bending the rules for our sake He cannot. For me it would be better to have no relationship at all than to engage in activity that is forbidden but the call is ours, we can do as we want but choices have consequences. I suppose that if you are not going to keep the commandments to begin with then it may not matter much but don't expect me or the moral majority to give an approving nod because your example can and will influence those around you and that is why I take such a hard line. Do what you will with your own eternities but when it comes to your lifestyle trying to entice someone else to go down the same road then I can and will stand up to countert your point of view. This goes beyond the scope of the individual and sexual preferences, it extends to what we, as a group, are teaching the upcoming generations.

Firstly, there is heavy debate on whether the original bibles spoke of homosexuality in general, or specifically sex with temple prostitutes.

Indeed, Romans 1:26-27 speaks of this, and considering the "natural use of women" was as personal property, and that "spilling your seed onto the ground" meant pulling out, the mistake is quite obvious.

You people have been basing millenia of hate on misintrpiritations and homophobic agendas.

 

[AxisMundi]

Then why do only some people become alcoholics and not others if the conditioned process is widely in effect?

There is no "predisposition to be an alcoholic". There are two main variables in this subject. One is an Addictive Personality (nature) where booze just happens to be the socially acceptable and/or most readily available addictive substance. The other is simple nurture, the child growing up alcoholic because the parents where.

Sexuality is neither of these, and your continued attempts to steer from simple clinical research and peer reviewed sciences is quite obvious.