Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
do you feel you have a more worshipful attitude when you are surrounded by a church building containing all its images and icons related to the christian faith?
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Is Islam a universal religion.
- Thread starter Vinayaka
- Start date
do you feel you have a more worshipful attitude when you are surrounded by a church building containing all its images and icons related to the christian faith?
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Has it not occured to anyone that no religion is universal? Religion itself implies set rules and creeds with dogma and bias influence.
No religion is universal but the believe in a god is. That is where things differ.
No religion is universal but the believe in a god is. That is where things differ.
Treks
Well-Known Member
Isn't the superior standard celebacy? And those who can't do celebacy, monogamy is the next best thing?
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John Martin
Active Member
We need to distinguish between RELIGION and Religion. Religion is a belief system. It has its own prophet, founder and scripture. It has its boundary to protect and a possible desire to expand. RELIGION is state of consciousness. It is like the infinite space. Religion is like a house with four walls and a roof. RELIGION does not have a boundary to protect and does not need to expand because it is everywhere and all religions are within it. No religion can be a universal religion since every religious label excludes others. RELIGION is not a belief system it is the unity of the whole of creation and of humanity. If we use analogy of a tree, religions belong to the level of the branches. RELIGION belongs to the level of roots that holds the trunk, branches and the leaves. Human consciousness has the possibility to grow beyond the branches into the trunk and from there into the roots. Religions can never be universal. A person whose consciousness has reached to the level of the trunk is called universal person or religion and a person whose consciousness has reached to the level of roots can be called ETERNAL RELIGION. This ETERNAL RELIGION is nothing but God. The purpose of religions and universal persons is provisional and preparatory. There are like nests in which the eggs are hatched, the little ones are protected, nourished and given security until they are ready to fly into ETERNAL RELIGION, which is God.
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Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Islam is not universal in the sense that you have to leave old beliefs and traditions which are not compatible with its creeds upon conversion. So in this sense it is only universal if you conform or submit.
Personally what I consider universal is inherit acceptance of all cultures, their heritages and personal beliefs. I don't see that Islam offers that.
For example a religion which accepts other religions in an inclusive way may be called universal, a Christian denomination which believes that all human beings will be saved may be called universal, etc.
In this sense, Islam recognized the validity of Judaism and Christianity to some extent, but it is certainly not inclusive about many other traditions or beliefs. In fact the Islamic point of view holds that the world is divided to the House of Islam, where people live under Islamic law, and the House of War, where people who do not live under Islam live and in the long run they need to be converted.
Speaking politically, the House of Islam itself is highly divided and is ridden with wars and sectarian strife.
So only in some very selective ideological approach can we say that Islam is universal. But historically and politically it is not the case.
Personally what I consider universal is inherit acceptance of all cultures, their heritages and personal beliefs. I don't see that Islam offers that.
For example a religion which accepts other religions in an inclusive way may be called universal, a Christian denomination which believes that all human beings will be saved may be called universal, etc.
In this sense, Islam recognized the validity of Judaism and Christianity to some extent, but it is certainly not inclusive about many other traditions or beliefs. In fact the Islamic point of view holds that the world is divided to the House of Islam, where people live under Islamic law, and the House of War, where people who do not live under Islam live and in the long run they need to be converted.
Speaking politically, the House of Islam itself is highly divided and is ridden with wars and sectarian strife.
So only in some very selective ideological approach can we say that Islam is universal. But historically and politically it is not the case.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
The issue with RELIGION and Religion is that it cannot be spelled in Arabic since there are no capital letters and it cannot be spoken. I can be writing ا's, ب's, ج's, س's and ي's and it still won't make a capital variant to be recognized by another culture.
What you are actually referring to is "Religion" and "Theism". Believe in god is one thing while religion is another.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
There is no concept of "house of War" in Quran, in my opinion; if you know kindly provide the reference.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I didn't say anything about the Qur'an if you read my post carefully.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
If Quran does not say anything on an issue; then it is not Islamic; that is what I wanted to say.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
And that is your opinion. Millions of Muslims utilize countless of ideologies which are extra-Qur'anic.
Not by my definition of the word. If religion is that, than it is not something worth having.
Excuse me? Belief in God is not and can never be universal.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Belief in God is not and can never be universal.
Please provide arguments.
Please provide arguments.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
If Islam is a Universal Religion and was meant for All people why the Quran does not address Hindus and Buddhists?
I would assume because some people don't believe in God? Some believe in several Gods? Just a guess.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
If some people don't believe that is not a bar for a religion being universal; Quran does not favour that all people are united on one religion by compulsion.
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
But does Quran invite all people to accept Revelation of Quran? For example Buddhists or Hindus? Or even a Hadith that Muhammad wrote to Hindus to invite them?
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
[34:29] And We have not sent thee but as a bearer of glad tidings and a Warner, for all mankind, but most men know not.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
InvestigateTruth
Veteran Member
Thanks for finding the verse. It may denote that the Revelation of Muhammad was for all mankind, however, in my view some questions rises as for the Translations and interpretations.
In the verse, the Word, لنَّاسِ is translated as for people.
But which people? Maybe Jews and Christians, and not for example Buddhist or Hindus??
The word that may mean "All" in the verse is كَافَّةً. But this word has multiple meaning, and does not necessarily mean "All". Here are the list of the verses which the word كَافَّةً occurs:
(2:208:7) kāffatan completely يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ادْخُلُوا فِي السِّلْمِ كَافَّةً
(9:36:28) kāffatan all together وَقَاتِلُوا الْمُشْرِكِينَ كَافَّةً
(9:36:31) kāffatan all together كَمَا يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ كَافَّةً
(9:122:5) kāffatan all together وَمَا كَانَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ لِيَنْفِرُوا كَافَّةً
(34:28:4) kāffatan comprehensively وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ إِلَّا كَافَّةً لِلنَّاسِ بَشِيرًا وَنَذِيرًا
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Quran Search
And some other translators, have translated that word as "perfectly"
So, do you think it could be that the verse is saying, "Muhammad is sent for people as "Perfect" Warner...."??
Because there is a better word that Quran uses which means "All", and that word is كُلِّ.
لِكُلِّ لنَّاسِ means for all people. But كَافَّةً لِلنَّاسِ can mean, perfectly for people.
Even if lets say, Muhammad was sent as a Warner and bearer of glad tidings about the Day of Judgement, why does this necessarily mean, the Sharia Law was meant to be followed by all people?
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Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Yes it can. Because anybody can believe in god if they so choose. But not everybody can believe in Islam.
Believing in god requires no creed and often no justification. Almost all religious paths believe in a god or the supernatural so by definition Belief in God is universal.
But you may be referring to the exclusion of atheists which I would not consider a major issue since to believe in a religion of any kind you have to a spiritual believe. So the atheist will always be excluded
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Almost all religion believe in god or the supernatural thus it is universal. My argument is proven by simple definition. All religions MUST accept these basic tenets to be a religion so by merely simplifying the requirements of one I have made it more applicable.
Thus the Univer Religion. The issue is you are thinking about the acceptance of atheists and nontheists which is irrelevant since to form a religion one must believe on the basic definition of it and nontheists do not so their inclusion is not necessary.