Is Islam a universal religion.

[Matemkar]

I am not saying that islam is universal just because Quran says so..
I mentioned the allegation islam makes and said it should be studied to see if true..
Islam says it is the universal message because it is the necessity of Fitrat (natural disposition) of Human Beings regardless of nations, ethnicities, social background..
[youtube]JF03uyfCGJE[/youtube]
Flawed Idea of "Universal Human Rights" - Ayatullah Jawadi Amoli [Eng Subs] - YouTube
and one needs to study it further to see if it is true or not.. And I suggest Murtaza Mutahhari's books on this.. Thank you.. ma salam

 

[Sha'irullah]

I am not saying that islam is universal because Quran says so..
I mentioned the allegation islam makes and said it should be studied to see if true..
Islam says it is the universal message because it is the necessity of Fitrat (natural disposition) of Human Beings regardless of nations, ethnicities, social background..


Flawed Idea of "Universal Human Rights" - Ayatullah Jawadi Amoli [Eng Subs] - YouTube
and one needs to study it further to see if it is true or not.. And I suggest Murtaza Mutahhari's books on this.. Thank you.. ma salam

I should be thanking you for actually providing a reasonable answer. Despite the fact I have been trained to hate Shi'ites I must say that you provided the most reasonable answer.
Telling one a religion is universal is quite different as saying the message is not. The primary message of Islam in Tawhid itself which is monotheism. My primary statement for the message of Islam has been that it is "Perfected MOnotheism".

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

-Joh 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

 

[Sha'irullah]

-Joh 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

What does this mean exactly?

 

[Sunstone]

I don't think of Islam as a universal religion. In fact, I think of no religion as universal. The best that can be said of any religion, I think, is that it might be suitable for me people than most other religions.

Specifically, it seems to me that Islam is too controlling for many of us.

 

[Assad91]

-Joh 16:2They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

What is this in reference towards? Islam? If so, then great job at demonstrating your ignorance of Islam.

Christians are always lying about Islam, quoting this verse and using it against Muslims. yet it is silly due to the fact that Muslims have no problems with Jews in general. Just land stealing, child killing zionist.

 

[Pegg]

I am not saying that islam is universal just because Quran says so..
I mentioned the allegation islam makes and said it should be studied to see if true..
Islam says it is the universal message because it is the necessity of Fitrat (natural disposition) of Human Beings regardless of nations, ethnicities, social background..
[youtube]JF03uyfCGJE[/youtube]
Flawed Idea of "Universal Human Rights" - Ayatullah Jawadi Amoli [Eng Subs] - YouTube
and one needs to study it further to see if it is true or not.. And I suggest Murtaza Mutahhari's books on this.. Thank you.. ma salam

I dont believe it is natural for several women to mate with one man. That is not natural.

Woman by nature prefer to have one man and to be 'one' with him. She does not sit comfortably with being relegated to a sexual partner within a marriage of serveral other women. This truth can even be seen among muslim women who refuse to allow her husband to take another wife.

 

[Assad91]

I dont believe it is natural for several women to mate with one man. That is not natural.

Woman by nature prefer to have one man and to be 'one' with him. She does not sit comfortably with being relegated to a sexual partner within a marriage of serveral other women. This truth can even be seen among muslim women who refuse to allow her husband to take another wife.

Haha. Tell that to Abraham, Jacob, David, etc in the bible.

 

[Pegg]

Haha. Tell that to Abraham, Jacob, David, etc in the bible.

Abraham only remarried after the death of Sarah. Perhaps he went a little insane after loosing the love of his life

Jacob only loved one wife, Rachel. He was tricked into marrying Rachels older sister first though...but he was only 'one' with Rachel.

David, as King, knew the law God gave to them saying "he must NOT multiply wives for himself"


God did not implement polygamy as 'normal' for men and women. What was normal and implemented by God was 'one man/one woman' a 'married pair' who would become 'one flesh'

But men are imperfect and in their imperfection they tend to do what is wrong...thats called 'sin'

 

[Sha'irullah]

Abraham only remarried after the death of Sarah. Perhaps he went a little insane after loosing the love of his life

Jacob only loved one wife, Rachel. He was tricked into marrying Rachels older sister first though...but he was only 'one' with Rachel.

David, as King, knew the law God gave to them saying "he must NOT multiply wives for himself"


God did not implement polygamy as 'normal' for men and women. What was normal and implemented by God was 'one man/one woman' a 'married pair' who would become 'one flesh'

But men are imperfect and in their imperfection they tend to do what is wrong...thats called 'sin'

You forgot the concubines and left out quite a lot of other men. To say monogamy is natural is seriously pushing the bars of romantic conduct when polygamous relationships are by far more natural. Love does not have a limit

 

[Pegg]

You forgot the concubines and left out quite a lot of other men. To say monogamy is natural is seriously pushing the bars of romantic conduct when polygamous relationships are by far more natural. Love does not have a limit

polygamy is not love... its lust.

Men seek to feed their fleshly desire on whomever they want. Thats lust. Its greed and yes even some of Gods servants of the past have been prone to such bad behavior.

But that doesnt mean that God approves of such behavior or that he sanctions it. He certainly didnt instituted it... if you want to know who instituted it just read the book of Genesis and you'll see that the demons who 'forsook their original positions in heaven' came to earth and took many women as their wives.

Polygamy isa demonic 'love' you are speaking about here...it has nothing to do with God who demands 'loyalty' and 'whole souled devotion' and 'commitment' and 'exclusive devotion' ....these are the traits God requires of us and they should be the same traits we require of each other. But a man in a polygamous relationship is not giving himself 'exclusively' to his wife. He does not require such devotion of himself to his wife. He expects that from her toward him, but he certainly isnt practicing devotion or true love in the Godly sense.

He's just feeding his flesh and looking after himself. Its extremely selfish and self-centered. God is nothing like that.

 

[Sha'irullah]

polygamy is not love... its lust.

Men seek to feed their fleshly desire on whomever they want. Thats lust. Its greed and yes even some of Gods servants of the past have been prone to such bad behavior.

But that doesnt mean that God approves of such behavior or that he sanctions it. He certainly didnt instituted it... if you want to know who instituted it just read the book of Genesis and you'll see that the demons who 'forsook their original positions in heaven' came to earth and took many women as their wives.

Polygamy isa demonic 'love' you are speaking about here...it has nothing to do with God who demands 'loyalty' and 'whole souled devotion' and 'commitment' and 'exclusive devotion' ....these are the traits God requires of us and they should be the same traits we require of each other. But a man in a polygamous relationship is not giving himself 'exclusively' to his wife. He does not require such devotion of himself to his wife. He expects that from her toward him, but he certainly isnt practicing devotion or true love in the Godly sense.

He's just feeding his flesh and looking after himself. Its extremely selfish and self-centered. God is nothing like that.

There is not much fundamental difference between love and lust because they both occur at different times. Love in the day and lust at night, rather simplistic.
I honestly cannot think of a single monogamous relationship in the Old Testament. While the New Testament bans it because of its European origins which are of course bias and corrupt.
We love multiple people all the time in our lives and to think men cannot love multiples is silly and highly inaccurate. Men do not see beyond the limit of their hormones which is obvious and I myself know happily married polygamous couples as well.
Monogamy is almost purely European in occurrence and quite a few countries have had it to some greater extent except Europe, where the New Testament was surprisingly written. Lust is a factor which comes into all marriages because I can assure you that no man is marrying a woman purely based on platonic romance.
At least Islam can shed a positive light on this despite the actions taken by Arabs and sexist governments

 

[Pegg]

There is not much fundamental difference between love and lust because they both occur at different times. Love in the day and lust at night, rather simplistic.

love gives, lust takes.

thats a better way to put it. And that makes them HUGELY different.

I honestly cannot think of a single monogamous relationship in the Old Testament.

Noah and his wife.


While the New Testament bans it because of its European origins which are of course bias and corrupt.
We love multiple people all the time in our lives and to think men cannot love multiples is silly and highly inaccurate. Men do not see beyond the limit of their hormones which is obvious and I myself know happily married polygamous couples as well.
Monogamy is almost purely European in occurrence and quite a few countries have had it to some greater extent except Europe, where the New Testament was surprisingly written. Lust is a factor which comes into all marriages because I can assure you that no man is marrying a woman purely based on platonic romance.
At least Islam can shed a positive light on this despite the actions taken by Arabs and sexist governments[/quote]

im not sure the acts of man and the arrangements they put in place have anything to do with God and what he wants.

People can be as polygamous as they want to be, it doesnt affect me so I dont care either way, but please dont try to make excuses for it based on what some other people did in the past. I understand people want to do it and they certainly can, but they shouldn't say that God approves of it when the bible shows that he doesnt.

allowing something and approving are two different things.

 

[Matemkar]

I dont believe it is natural for several women to mate with one man. That is not natural.

Woman by nature prefer to have one man and to be 'one' with him. She does not sit comfortably with being relegated to a sexual partner within a marriage of serveral other women. This truth can even be seen among muslim women who refuse to allow her husband to take another wife.

I heard about "becoming ONE with GOD" (Wahdat al-Wujuud) too. And, nowehere I saw the claim that only one person can reach that stage.. All servants of God can attain it.. likewise, women becoming one with their husband along with co-wives is possible. (I am not saying men are "gods" btw..) And I do not think of polygamy as lust (only speaking about the marriages of Prophets and prophetlike men Philosophy of Marriages.pdf not those of abusers), rather I think of polygamy in that way as affection.. And In other aspects too, as I said, I refer to Mutahhari's articles for further study: Polygamy (Please skip to the part: "Is Man Polygamous by Nature?") Thanks. Ma salam..

 

[Pegg]

I heard about "becoming ONE with GOD" (Wahdat al-Wujuud) too. And, nowehere I saw the claim that only one person can reach that stage.. All servants of God can attain it.. likewise, women becoming one with their husband along with co-wives is possible. (I am not saying men are "gods" btw..) And I do not think of polygamy as lust (only speaking about the marriages of Prophets and prophetlike men Philosophy of Marriages.pdf not those of abusers), rather I think of polygamy in that way as affection.. And In other aspects too, as I said, I refer to Mutahhari's articles for further study: Polygamy (Please skip to the part: "Is Man Polygamous by Nature?") Thanks. Ma salam..

that is a well written article on polygamy, thanks.

I especially think this section is very wise.

A happy married life depends on sincerity, tolerance, sacrifice and unity. All these things are endangered in the case of polygamy. Apart from the unenviable position of the wives and the children in a plural marriage, the responsibilities of the husband himself are so heavy and crushing that it is no fun to shoulder them -Most of the men, who are happy and satisfied with polygamy, are those who practically evade their legal and moral responsibilities. They turn all their attention to one wife and ignore the other, whom they leave, in the words of the Holy Qur'an, 'hanging', What is called polygamy by such people is in reality a sort of monogamy coupled with high-handedness, tyranny and criminal injustice.


There is a proverb current among the common people which says: 'One God, One Wife'.


That has been and is the belief of most of the people and, if we measure the problem by the standard of individual happiness, it is correct. The rule of monogamy, if not applicable to all men, is certainly applicable to most of them.
If someone thinks that polygamy, with all the legal and moral responsibilities it entails, is a bed of roses, he is sadly mistaken. From the angle of personal comfort and happiness, monogamy is definitely preferable.


We know that God wants what is best for us. If polygamy is not best, then why continue to do it and an even larger question, why would a prophet of God re-install (Jesus did away with it completely) it as an acceptable way to live?

 

[Matemkar]

In the name of the Lord.. Salam.. Nice to know you liked the article..
Sorry for asking questions rather than answering but do you think Christians did not and do not perform it? And do you think Arabs then were all Christians? Anyway, in the article I shared and as you quoted it is mentioned that Islam allows it but does not suggest it.. (And I believe it can be good for some rare and desperate cases..) thanks. ma salam

 

[Muffled]

Verses leading up to 002.120

I still don't see anything that says that.

I find this: 2:112 Nay, — hoever submits his whole self to Allah and is a doer of good, -he will get his reward with his Lord;

That sounds like it could be Christians and Jews and possibly other religions as well.

 

[Muffled]

1000 years of boredom, then. Variety is the spice of life.

I don't believe variety has to be perversion. I see the world having been created in great variety so why would God's kingdom be different?

 

[Muffled]

just on the link 'why pray in arabic' it says praying in Arabic
"has paved the way of common approach to God,"

I fail to see how this is true considering only those who understand Arabic will understand it. I think the reasoning here is back to front... a universal prayer that everyone can understand is what paves a 'common' approach to God. But If i were to hear a prayer being given in arabic, then i would not be able to understand and thus join in that prayer.

So how can arabic be a common approach if arabic is not a common language?

I once went to an Eastern Catholic church service covering the stations of the cross. The entire service was in Arabic. However I wasn't there to learn about the stations of the cross because I was already familiar withthem and the pictures were enough to refresh the memory. I was sinply there to remember what Jesus went through in a worshipful attitude.

 

[Pegg]

In the name of the Lord.. Salam.. Nice to know you liked the article..
Sorry for asking questions rather than answering but do you think Christians did not and do not perform it? And do you think Arabs then were all Christians? Anyway, in the article I shared and as you quoted it is mentioned that Islam allows it but does not suggest it.. (And I believe it can be good for some rare and desperate cases..) thanks. ma salam

the early christian writings show that they viewed monogamy as the superior standard...so much so that only men practicing monogamous marriages could be appointed to a position of authority within the church. It was said of such a man that he was 'irreprehensible' and had 'great freeness of speech' because of his practicing monogamy.

There is a really good principle that Christians are advised to live by...it is at 1Corinthians 10:31 Therefore, whether YOU are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God’s glory.
This is a principle that can be applied in so many ways... but in regard to marriage, it would be honorable to practice marriage in the way God designed it. When he created Adam, he gave him 'one' wife, Eve. They were together until they died. That was the original marriage and it was the only marriage arranged by God himself. Jesus viewed that marriage as the standard that all of us should strive for.


I dont think 7th century Arabs were all christians, but some may have been. I would say that Mohammad did not end polygamy in the way chrisitans did because he was from a culture where polygamy was commonly practiced...it was entrenched in the culture and still is. He was a practicer of polygamy himself which may explain why his teachings permit polygamy.