Is Islam peaceful?

[robocop (actually)]

Most religions have had problems being peaceful. Islam is the religion of submission.

 

[Notanumber]

I can't see the Council of ex-Muslims of Britain taking kindly to this. Waters will be courting the 'if it's brown or black it's a Muslim' knuckle-dragging portion of the electorate. The idea that a far-right political party is the only one which seemingly wants to actively give ex-Muslims a voice as ex-Muslims is absolutely disgusting.

She is a brave woman that is standing up to Islam. How many other British politicians are doing that?

If I were an ex-Muslim living in the UK, I would welcome any support that was offered.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What about Answering Islam? That's just another example of non-Muslims 'quoting Quran verses out of context' which is something you condemn. And you're actually using non-Muslims doing this to deflect from Muslims doing the exact same thing. Unbelievable.

You didn't answer my question, by the way. Why do you call non-Muslims out on quoting Quranic verses 'out of context' but don't call Muslims out on the exact same thing? Why the double standard?




Very well. Using your own words:




Non-Muslim quoting a few verses from different surahs but with a common theme = out of context.

Muslim quoting a few verses from different surahs but with a common theme = in context

Apparently




I can't see the Council of ex-Muslims of Britain taking kindly to this. Waters will be courting the 'if it's brown or black it's a Muslim' knuckle-dragging portion of the electorate. The idea that a far-right political party is the only one which seemingly wants to actively give ex-Muslims a voice as ex-Muslims is absolutely disgusting.

I've done this (calling out Muslims) numerous times on this website. I actually made a thread in the Islam DIR if you cared to read it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Over the course of many debates, a common apologist argument is to try to deflect criticism of a given religion away from the religion being criticized. Yours is a well worn dodge. I put this in the "hide the ball" category of dodges. So if we can't ascribe any negatives to Islam, then how is it that some people ascribe benefits?

This is not deflection its truth. I understand you've never attended a university to study political science but this discussion is deeper than simply blaming a religion.

 

[icehorse]

This is not deflection its truth. I understand you've never attended a university to study political science but this discussion is deeper than simply blaming a religion.

Wrong conclusion Batman. Care to guess again?

Of course I never claimed it was ALL about religion. But I find it's disingenuous to imply it's nothing to do with religion.

 

[Augustus]

But it was internal forces within Islam that ended the golden age. It was NOT outside forces.

Is this the 'Al-Ghazali ended the Golden Age' type of nonsense? It is a very, very poor argument.

It was long term economic decline and external forces.

Why do you think it was clearly internal forces?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Wrong conclusion Batman. Care to guess again?

Of course I never claimed it was ALL about religion. But I find it's disingenuous to imply it's nothing to do with religion.

Well if you think religion is remotely at fault you'd be an idiot. I could claim BLM is the cause of me killing 10 cops but in reality anyone can pervert anything.

 

[icehorse]

Well if you think religion is remotely at fault you'd be an idiot. I could claim BLM is the cause of me killing 10 cops but in reality anyone can pervert anything.

Nice, that's two ad hominem's in a row. You must really have a strong argument!

BTW, you never got back to me on whether you ascribe to Islam any positive features?

 

[icehorse]

Is this the 'Al-Ghazali ended the Golden Age' type of nonsense? It is a very, very poor argument.

It was long term economic decline and external forces.

Why do you think it was clearly internal forces?

Well you tell me, what caused those declines?

 

[Augustus]

Well you tell me, what caused those declines?

I was wondering why you were so insistent that it was caused by Islam rather than anything else. What is this based on?

I'll give you a full answer if you answer my question. A clue though...

What do you think caused the Golden Age to begin with? I'm pretty sure you don't think it was caused by Islam.

 

[Muslim-UK]

That was a dodge. Do you agree or disagree with what I said?

I agree with what GOD commands, stand up and fight oppression, if you can't do that then speak out, and if you can't even do that then supplicate in prayer to GOD to ease the suffering of others, verily GOD is with the patient.

 

[sayak83]

I agree with what GOD commands, stand up and fight oppression, if you can't do that then speak out, and if you can't even do that then supplicate in prayer to GOD to ease the suffering of others, verily GOD is with the patient.

Completely irrelevant response.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Nice, that's two ad hominem's in a row. You must really have a strong argument!

BTW, you never got back to me on whether you ascribe to Islam any positive features?

Math, science, cosmology, embryology, geology, need more?

 

[MohammadPali]

It's not only the Middle East which has grievances with the West, past or present. You are free to ask Latin American countries, South African black nations, Amerindian tribes and South, South-east and East Asian countries (Vietnam remember?). But the key to their successes today is not the nurturing of their grievances and fanning them with religio-political violence against the West or against each other. As examples of liberation theology, Mandela and Desmond Tutu, Gandhi and Hindu Vedantists, Buddhists like thich nhat hanh shows.. the key to building strong constructive societies and nations are through strong and peaceful leadership in moral, religious and social spheres. Middle Eastern nations have far less reason for complaints. They were not enslaved like black Africans, not colonized like Indians and South-east Asians or exterminated like Amerindians. Oil should have given them far more economic leverage than Latin American countries ever possessed in their long duration as economic colonies of the US. So I ask you... where are your great moral and ethical leaders, why are so many Muslims so easily incited towards horrendous violence against minorities in their own countries and fellow Muslims who are on the wrong side. Why are some of them inspired to terrorist attacks thinking them to be religiously justified? Why do Middle Eastern countries come out the worst in terms of human freedoms? These are serious problems. Just as people are concerned about gun violence in US, the activities of North Korea, the pogroms against Rohingyas in Burma... so are they justified in their concern for the mindless endless violence in the Middle East and terror attacks by Muslim fundamentalists elsewhere.

The last 50 years hindus and buddahists killed more muslims than the west has. What kind of non-sense are you talking about ? Not colonized like indians ? I don't even know....... what ? Not colonized ? hahahaha, lawrence of arabia must be fake, france occupying syria is also fake, the ottomans, the british, the americans, what the hell is this and now israel. Maybe russia is going to occupy next. You don't remember Winston Churchill overthrowing the government of iran because the iranians wanted the control their own oil ?

The native americans died mostly of disease the europeans brought from europe. Most native americans from when the europeans died never ever met a european or a white man, it was rare. Natives who interacted with the european spread disease to other natives who never saw or heard of this whiteman and more of them died that way.

India has a much bigger problem than religion, the problem is trying to breathe clean air, maybe vishnu or rashoo, or radoo, the lord of whatever can manifest himself into a large vacuum cleaner and suck the bad air in india.

Terrorism is less of an issue in india than just breathing and you know this. May the manifestation of whatever god(s) you believe in guide you. Maybe it will be kung fu panda.

 

[icehorse]

Math, science, cosmology, embryology, geology, need more?

Even if - for the sake of discussion - I granted you those things, that was a thousand years ago. What has Islam done for the world since then?

 

[MohammadPali]

Even if - for the sake of discussion - I granted you those things, that was a thousand years ago. What has Islam done for the world since then?

You like umbrellas ? you need oil for that, you like to conditioner your hair ? you need oil. You like your car ? You need oil. You like falafel or hummus ? Thats from the middle east. You like desert after dinner ? Well the first desert was turkish delight. Who the hell doesn't like turkish delight ? Christianity is an arab religion is it not ? came from the middle east. Didn't come from rome, or athens. Bethlehem in palestine is an arab village right ? Not Bethlehem Pennsylvania.

Alot of muslims try to figure the same out about Christianity. What have they brought to the world the last 100 years ? You try to figure that out. Manifest destiny is it freedom ? or is it oppression ?

 

[icehorse]

I was wondering why you were so insistent that it was caused by Islam rather than anything else. What is this based on?

I'll give you a full answer if you answer my question. A clue though...

What do you think caused the Golden Age to begin with? I'm pretty sure you don't think it was caused by Islam.

cat and mouse!

 

[icehorse]

You like umbrellas ? you need oil for that, you like to conditioner your hair ? you need oil. You like your car ? You need oil. You like falafel or hummus ? Thats from the middle east. You like desert after dinner ? Well the first desert was turkish delight. Who the hell doesn't like turkish delight ? Christianity is an arab religion is it not ? came from the middle east. Didn't come from rome, or athens. Bethlehem in palestine is an arab village right ? Not Bethlehem Pennsylvania.

Alot of muslims try to figure the same out about Christianity. What have they brought to the world the last 100 years ? You try to figure that out. Manifest destiny is it freedom ? or is it oppression ?

Well perhaps you'll be interested to hear that I take a dim view of Christianity too.

And, as for other items on your list, some of those seem to be gifts from the earth or gifts from culture. If you choose to say that these are gifts from Islam, then logically you must also being willing to admit all of the huge problems that Islam has always created and continues to create.

 

[Augustus]

Well the first desert was turkish delight. Who the hell doesn't like turkish delight ?

Turkish delight is the worst dessert in history

"Hmmm, we need a flavour for this pudding. I know let's stick a bar of hand soap into a jelly, that'll be marvellous."

Christianity is an arab religion is it not ? came from the middle east. Didn't come from rome, or athens. Bethlehem in palestine is an arab village right ?

Not in the slightest. 2000 years ago most Middle Easterners weren't Arabs. Palestinians weren't Arabs. Jews weren't Arabs. Levantines weren't Arabs. Persians weren't Arabs. Arabs were the people who lived in Arabia, hence the name.

 

[Augustus]

cat and mouse!

The decline of the GA was caused by the decline of the things that caused the GA: massive wealth, patronage, stability, paper as a new technology, etc. You don't think Islam caused the GA after all.

After Ghazali there was no decline in philosophy, there was actually an increase, and numerous advances happened after his time.

It's even debatable whether or not there was a decline (was really a slowing of progress over centuries), advancement is relative and the Europeans overtook the Muslim Empires as they fragmented, were conquered and fought. Output dropped significantly in some places but not in others, although being smaller they produced less overall.

Why are you so certain it was an internal issue in Islam?