Is Islam Responsible for the Charlie Hebdo Murders?

[gsa]

Look, you know we will never be agree, dont waste your time and I also mine too We will die as Muslims and you will die as a non-Muslim.

We are not even able to discuss these issues because we live in two separate universes. In the universe I inhabit, Muslim extremists murdered French cartoonists for the "crime" of blasphemy. In the world you inhabit, they were murdered by non-Muslim intelligence operatives.

 

[leibowde84]

Ha,ha........now you call double standards propaganda.Are you not showing your true colours?
Read it here.
Glenn Greenwald on Charlie Hebdo and Jewish Hypocrisy | Occidental Dissent

This is also a White-Supremacy extremely racist extremist group in the US. I don't even think they even want you reading their material, as I'm very sure that they hate you. They hate pretty much all Muslims. In other words, you could not have chosen a more unreliable source. Next try the Ku Klux Klan website ... haha. Or maybe the Westboro Baptist Church. lol.

 

[NoX]

We are not even able to discuss these issues because we live in two separate universes. In the universe I inhabit, Muslim extremists murdered French cartoonists for the "crime" of blasphemy. In the world you inhabit, they were murdered by non-Muslim intelligence operatives.

Anywayyy.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Read it from a western media window.
"L'affaire Sine" followed the engagement of Mr Sarkozy, 22, to Jessica Sebaoun-Darty, the Jewish heiress of an electronic goods chain. Commenting on an unfounded rumour that the president's son planned to convert to Judaism, Sine quipped: "He'll go a long way in life, that little lad."
A high-profile political commentator slammed the column as linking prejudice about Jews and social success. Charlie Hebdo's editor, Philippe Val, asked Sinet to apologise but he refused, exclaiming: "I'd rather cut my balls off."

Read it here.
French cartoonist Sine on trial on charges of anti-Semitism over Sarkozy jibe - Telegraph

By the way did you say you was Jewish?

 

[Salvador]

Rude....what makes my question rude?

I think Gsaseeker has explained to you very well why your question was rude. The way that you addressed your question to "all bigots of this thread." Sorry, but anyone who disagrees with you is not the correct definition of a bigot. Also, your question was way off the topic of this post. Wtf did your rape/murder/torture scenario have to do with the OP's question about whether or not the Islamic influence on Islamic extremism should be ignored?

 

[leibowde84]

...

Hey, I'm not the one who cited a White-Supremacist website as evidence for an argument. lol. That might have been the most ironic thing I have ever seen.

 

[leibowde84]

Read it from a western media window.
"L'affaire Sine" followed the engagement of Mr Sarkozy, 22, to Jessica Sebaoun-Darty, the Jewish heiress of an electronic goods chain. Commenting on an unfounded rumour that the president's son planned to convert to Judaism, Sine quipped: "He'll go a long way in life, that little lad."
A high-profile political commentator slammed the column as linking prejudice about Jews and social success. Charlie Hebdo's editor, Philippe Val, asked Sinet to apologise but he refused, exclaiming: "I'd rather cut my balls off."

Read it here.
French cartoonist Sine on trial on charges of anti-Semitism over Sarkozy jibe - Telegraph

By the way did you say you was Jewish?

Lol. I already mentioned this. They took CH to court, and CH won. The French Government refused to censor the magazine even though it was seen as anti-semitic. Thus, this is a perfect example of how the Jewish community reacts more appropriately/reasonably/in the interest of society when things like this are published. Strike 2! .. Strike one was citing the white-supremicist magazine ...

 

[leibowde84]

Read it from a western media window.
"L'affaire Sine" followed the engagement of Mr Sarkozy, 22, to Jessica Sebaoun-Darty, the Jewish heiress of an electronic goods chain. Commenting on an unfounded rumour that the president's son planned to convert to Judaism, Sine quipped: "He'll go a long way in life, that little lad."
A high-profile political commentator slammed the column as linking prejudice about Jews and social success. Charlie Hebdo's editor, Philippe Val, asked Sinet to apologise but he refused, exclaiming: "I'd rather cut my balls off."

Read it here.
French cartoonist Sine on trial on charges of anti-Semitism over Sarkozy jibe - Telegraph

By the way did you say you was Jewish?

I am not Jewish, but my father is. My mom is roman catholic, but she is more Agnostic now than anything. We discuss religion a lot in my family.

By the way, did the Islamic community even try to sue the magazine? I guess they wouldn't be able to because they wouldn't have standing in court, but did they at least try?

 

[Cephus]

Anything can be dangerous if it's twisted around. I've seen Muslims face more unfair treatment from Europe and America which are not Muslim majority countries. People are already being manipulated into thinking all Muslims are bad.

Seriously, you let me know when those people are stopped in the street, just for being Muslim and beheaded on the spot. If you think the way people treat Muslims in Europe and America is worse than the way Muslims treat non-Muslims in the Middle East, you're out of your mind.

 

[Cephus]

Why the double standards?

I don't think there should be. Religion, indeed everything, ought to be up for discussion, debate and derision. There are no limits to free speech.

 

[NoX]

Guys, I'm gonna unwatch this thread. If you need anything, PM me.

Cheers!

LoL please teach me how to do that, I'm really disturbed by the "new post" alerts of this topic.

 

[Godobeyer]

So, why did you say "I am already talk and made thread about Charlie Hebdo" when I asked why you changed the subject in your post about unrelated past terrorist activities perpetrated by members of the Christian faith?

I have to right to critic other faiths history and other nations history and even my faith followers history .

If i am right , i am the first Muslim member condemned Paris attacks .

after months a anti-Islam member made this thread by attacked/blamed Islam for that crime, i blamed the Western goverment for their wrong policy in Iraq,Syria,Palestine,and Libya , which fuel the civil war and terrorism , which fired up Iraq and Syria,Libya and maybe soon Iran .

since i am here in RF I personally NEVER read a single thread made by non-Muslim critic the policy of West in past or present .

I am Muslim, i had courage and i have the freedom to critic the bad policy or crimes that done by some Muslims , and i made many thread about ISIS and similaire other issues .

 

[Godobeyer]

It just isn't true. That is mere propaganda, trying to trick you into believing something that isn't true. Christians and Jews had satirical cartoons insulting their religions as well. Instead of acting immature and rioting in the street / committing murders, they took the magazine to court. They lost, and the French Court refused to censor the cartoons.

As a citizen of the west, I grew up in a 50% Jewish household. I also went to a Catholic Grade School and High School where I heard anti-semitic remarks on a regular basis. There was also a huge anti-christian presence when I went to Hebrew School every Saturday. They knew I wasn't going to be Bar-Mitzvah'd so they treated me like garbage. But, again, I don't hold it against them. They are free to speak their minds, no matter how much it bothers me.

The reason why we don't hear about the other cartoons is because the Christian/Jewish communities act in a much more mature way and either go to court or just ignore them. That is my point. But, again, the cartoon you cited is complete propaganda, as I see anti-semitic and anti-christian publications all the time (in the US at least). Even denying the Holocaust is completely legal in the US.

it's true , in some europeen countries (especialy France) if you deny Holocaust is illegal and you will pay tax of money for that "speech" .

 

[faroukfarouk]

I am not Jewish, but my father is. My mom is roman catholic, but she is more Agnostic now than anything. We discuss religion a lot in my family.

By the way, did the Islamic community even try to sue the magazine? I guess they wouldn't be able to because they wouldn't have standing in court, but did they at least try?

FYI CH published cartoons about Prophet Jesus(PBBUH) and Chiristianity, too, causing the magazine being sued 12 times by Catholic Church.
we asked them in a very polite manner(not once,nor twice but thrice) to withdraw those disgusting drawings but they regarded our requests as threats.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

lewisnotmiller you gave a logical answer to a reasonable question.Note if i am your judge in your murder trial then without any doubt i will find you not guilty.

Well...I suspect I would be guilty, in terms of the law. But you didn't ask me what the correct legal action would be, nor what the correct moral action would be. You asked me what I would do, and hence I answered. I know myself well enough to know that the unlikely situation you presented would drive me past the point of rationalisation.

Note i only used this word "bigot" to show how utterly intolerant individuals in this thread are towards my beliefs.No harm meant just a pure fact so please take it with a pinch of salt.

'Bigot' is a subjective judgement. I'm not losing any sleep over it, but feel free to post an example of my 'bigoted' behaviour. If you read my response to the OP carefully, you might find I suggested blaming Islam was an over-simplification and unhelpful.

Now lets hear from the rest of the bigots so that i can address your question.

The insinuation here, once again, is that I am a bigot. I am not, but whatever. I am keen to see now what the point of the scenario presented was and how it relates to the OP. I answered in good faith that you would explain the purpose, much as I prefer simple discussion.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

FYI CH published cartoons about Prophet Jesus(PBBUH) and Chiristianity, too, causing the magazine being sued 12 times by Catholic Church.
we asked them in a very polite manner(not once,nor twice but thrice) to withdraw those disgusting drawings but they regarded our requests as threats.

Who is 'we'?

 

[Cephus]

LoL please teach me how to do that, I'm really disturbed by the "new post" alerts of this topic.

From what I remember, since I don't watch any threads, but at the top of the screen is a tab for "Watched Threads". Go in there, pick the thread you want to drop and there's a pull-down that says "stop watching thread". Hope that helps.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If I'm allowed to use the word "troll" then I will use it for whoever I want. So your staff membership cannot be a gun against me

You misunderstand me. I'm not making any sort of 'official' demand, since all such things go via the reports mechanisms and get dealt with by a consensus of staff members.
I am talking as a member of this thread who was referred to as a 'troll'. I am not a troll, and would appreciate not being referred to as such, or having some direct evidence of a troll-like post put forth.

In short, I am asking that you provide some substantiation of claims made.

I would also point out a strange irony in you suggesting I am holding a gun to anyone's head, or in you generalising about 'staff'.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

So Islamic ideology consists from what ? From persons or from Islamic stories which people call as hadiths, or Quran ? What ?

To me, it would depend on the form of Islam a Muslim subscribes to. Simplistically, a Sunni, Shi'ite or Quranist would all have different opinions on this. It's part of the reason I see the identification of Islam as the problem as being in and of itself problematic, and prefer to focus on particular behaviours which are worrying.

In much the same way, I would hesitate to over-generalise about Christians, but would instead focus on particular beliefs or behaviours, or sub-groups of Christianity. A Roman Catholic has a very different worldview to a Jehovah's Witness, and taking an RCC to task over issues like blood transfusions is nonsensical.

Much like Christians, there are some commonalities amongst Muslims, primarily in their view of the Quran as a holy book, quite apart from their acceptance of hadiths, etc. There are also behaviours and beliefs that are more common in the Muslim 'world' than outside it, so it can be meaningful to generalise about 'Muslims' at times. I think it is also something we should be very careful in doing.

 

[leibowde84]

LoL please teach me how to do that, I'm really disturbed by the "new post" alerts of this topic.

Smart_Guy is the man!! I agree. And he has actually and honestly participated in this debate to its conclusion in a civil way. And has taught me a thing or two.