Is Islam Responsible for the Charlie Hebdo Murders?

[Theweirdtophat]

Seriously, you let me know when those people are stopped in the street, just for being Muslim and beheaded on the spot. If you think the way people treat Muslims in Europe and America is worse than the way Muslims treat non-Muslims in the Middle East, you're out of your mind.

Why do you often forget that not all Muslim countries have the same beliefs, the same culture or the same laws? You act as if you're a non Muslim in a Muslim majority country, you're killed on the spot. Yes because they are all the same all believe in the same things, right? And you say I'm out of my mind. Muslims face harsh treatment in countries like America, Europe, Israel, Burma, ect. But yes non Muslims do face prosecution as well in countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, ect.

You exaggerate to try and prove your point which already shows you're point isn't that convincing. If it was, you wouldn't need to exaggerate in the first place.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Peaceful protest or retaliatory cartoons. Either that or just rising above the opinions of a magazine editor or cartoonist.

You got to be joking.Do you think its going to stop the attacks.

What do you see as the alternative?

If someone declares war on your religion and all peaceful avenues have failed then war is the only alternative.

Ps. Not sure how you can call the cartoons a personal criminal attack on Islam. Islam isnt a person, nor did the courts judge them illegal. Do you mean an immoral personal attack on the Prophet?

We in Islam show love to all +-120,000 prophets that were sent to this World.Any attack on any of the Prophets(be it Nooh,Moses,Jesus,Abrahams,Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon them all) simply means an attack on God and Islam.They.the Prophets,were human like you and i but the difference is they were chosen by God to convey the message and as such we show respect and love to become closer to God.The love that we are to show goes beyond the love that we have for our own family or parents.That is why its very difficult for non muslims to understand how much of hurt,pain and grief it creates within us when such disgusting cartoons are published.
FYI its an article of our faith to believe and love all the Prophets(peace and blessings be upon them all).
Further please don't ask me who is we.

 

[faroukfarouk]

It is fascinating that you are linking to a website that describes itself as "Pro-White, Pro-South, Pro-Independence." I did not realize that you were a fan of neo-Confederate extremist groups. It is definitely a club that you would not be allowed to enter, by the way.

Note i just gave you one from my back pocket.
Now if you want more from other sources then believe me there is enough on the net that confirms the same.

 

[gsa]

You got to be joking.Do you think its going to stop the attacks.



If someone declares war on your religion and all peaceful avenues have failed then war is the only alternative.



We in Islam show love to all +-120,000 prophets that were sent to this World.Any attack on any of the Prophets(be it Nooh,Moses,Jesus,Abrahams,Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon them all) simply means an attack on God and Islam.They.the Prophets,were human like you and i but the difference is they were chosen by God to convey the message and as such we show respect and love to become closer to God.The love that we are to show goes beyond the love that we have for our own family or parents.That is why its very difficult for non muslims to understand how much of hurt,pain and grief it creates within us when such disgusting cartoons are published.
FYI its an article of our faith to believe and love all the Prophets(peace and blessings be upon them all).
Further please don't ask me who is we.

Cartoons are not a declaration of war. They are nowhere near the same as the rape and murder scenario you discussed earlier. After your efforts to censor CH failed, your options were ignore it or protest it. Instead, some Muslims decided to murder cartoonists. And you express solidarity with the murderers. To most of humanity, that's vile and evil.

 

[leibowde84]

The first option was the legal route but you dealing with a bigotry govt so our chances was slim.
The second option was the polite route which failed because they taught they held the upper hand.
So all options of finding a peaceful resolution to a personal criminal attack on Islam has failed.
Now tell me what is the alternative?

Just ignore the magazine. You are basically saying that unless you get what you want, in that satirical drawings of Muhammad should stop, you will

You got to be joking.Do you think its going to stop the attacks.



If someone declares war on your religion and all peaceful avenues have failed then war is the only alternative.



We in Islam show love to all +-120,000 prophets that were sent to this World.Any attack on any of the Prophets(be it Nooh,Moses,Jesus,Abrahams,Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon them all) simply means an attack on God and Islam.They.the Prophets,were human like you and i but the difference is they were chosen by God to convey the message and as such we show respect and love to become closer to God.The love that we are to show goes beyond the love that we have for our own family or parents.That is why its very difficult for non muslims to understand how much of hurt,pain and grief it creates within us when such disgusting cartoons are published.
FYI its an article of our faith to believe and love all the Prophets(peace and blessings be upon them all).
Further please don't ask me who is we.

How is drawing a satirical cartoon "declaring war on Islam?" That seems completely unreasonable to me. And, aren't you "declaring war" on anyone who disrespects the prophets? Wars are started with violence, not cartoons. Even a child would understand this. And, warning/threatening anyone is an invitation for them to continue what they are doing. If someone came up to me and demanded that I stop doing something that is 1. not against the law/criminal and 2. doesn't make any sense to me, then I am going to either ask that they convince me I am in the wrong or I will just ignore their request. You seem to understand that non-muslims won't understand the connection that you have with your religion. So, respect that and understand that non-muslims cannot be expected to respect a rule (not drawing satirical pictures of Muhammad) that doesn't seem to mesh with their secular views.

No one is asking you to give up your religion. We are merely asking that you respond civilly when someone criticizes it. That means debate, discussion, litigation, and speech. If these avenues do not get what you want, then accept the fact that your claim or want is incompatible with our global society. There are tons of things that offend me on a daily basis. To tell you the truth, you offend me quite a bit, and you make it personal on many occasions, when I try my best to keep my criticism on ideas/beliefs/traditions, rather than assault you personally. But, I am adult enough to keep on arguing with you instead of resorting to name-calling and the like.

 

[leibowde84]

Cartoons are not a declaration of war. They are nowhere near the same as the rape and murder scenario you discussed earlier. After your efforts to censor CH failed, your options were ignore it or protest it. Instead, some Muslims decided to murder cartoonists. And you express solidarity with the murderers. To most of humanity, that's vile and evil.

Well put.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Cartoons are not a declaration of war. They are nowhere near the same as the rape and murder scenario you discussed earlier. After your efforts to censor CH failed, your options were ignore it or protest it. Instead, some Muslims decided to murder cartoonists. And you express solidarity with the murderers. To most of humanity, that's vile and evil.

Now this is your opinion.
Do you know what is meant by "article of faith"?

 

[Salvador]

What is the definition of a bigot.

a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.
According to the Merriam Webster
"a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)"
"a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance".
According to Vocabulary Dictonary
"A bigot is someone who doesn't tolerate people of different races or religions. If you have an uncle who is a bigot and tells racist jokes at Thanksgiving, you may need to talk to him and tell him it's not okay".
According to Urban Dictionary.
A bigot is someone who holds predefined negative views about a class of people. Examples include anti-semites, homophobics, racists, religious extremists of any religion.

Now what is the meaning of intolerant.
not tolerant of views, beliefs, or behaviour that differ from one's own.
According to Merriam Webster
unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters.

Now what is rude about the word "bigot".
If you don't like to be called a "bigot" then stop such intolerant behaviour.
You have a right to be critical but that does not mean you right.You have a right to express your opinion and that also does not mean you right..
But if you insist that your opinion is correct then that is intolerance on your part.
Note no matter how critical you become or how you base your opinion its not going to change our principles on our belief system.
Now the question is why the double standards?
Sinet wrote a cartoon associating Jewishness with success. The cartoon joked that Jean Sarkozy, the son of French president Nicolas Sarkozy, would be more successful in life if he formerly converted to Judaism.Jean Sarkozy was getting married to a wealthy Jewish heiress at the time.
Sinet was accused of being “anti-Semitic.” He sued one of his critics for defamation.When the editor of CH asked Sinet to apologize his reply was "I'd rather cut my balls off".Sinet was fired from his job.He was then prosecuted for speech crimes. The plaintiff in the case was the International League against Racism and Anti-Semitism.
My point is CH and France employs double standards.What free speech nonsense they are talking about?
What was their intent in drawing those disgusting cartoons?
It was a crime of blasphemy against my beliefs and i justify the price they paid irrespective of who carried out those killings.

 

[gsa]

Now this is your opinion.
Do you know what is meant by "article of faith"?

An opinion shared by most of humanity, which explains why your religion is implicated in so many conflicts.

Yes, it is your doctrine and dogma. But we don't care, because it can't trump the law.

 

[leibowde84]

Now this is your opinion.
Do you know what is meant by "article of faith"?

A firmly held belief.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You got to be joking.Do you think its going to stop the attacks.

No, assuming by 'attacks' you mean cartoon drawings. As an atheist I have seen some pretty terrible things written about people with a similar world view to me. There are countries where the fact that I don't believe in God is illegal. To what lengths can I go to prevent this bigotry? None. My non-belief would never be protected by blasphemy laws (nor would I want it to be).

Seeking to control the opinions and beliefs of other humans via violence is evil.

If someone declares war on your religion and all peaceful avenues have failed then war is the only alternative.

War, huh? So you support the cold blooded murder of unarmed civillians because you disagreed with the pictures they drew and see them as insulting.

If drawing cartoons is 'war', then meet them with the same weapons. But no. Instead, they were murdered. Not war. Murder. It seems you are arrogant enough to support extreme violence regardless of the laws of the land, and to equate an unarmed cartoonist with a pencil to murderers with automatic weapons.

We in Islam show love to all +-120,000 prophets that were sent to this World.Any attack on any of the Prophets(be it Nooh,Moses,Jesus,Abrahams,Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon them all) simply means an attack on God and Islam.They.the Prophets,were human like you and i but the difference is they were chosen by God to convey the message and as such we show respect and love to become closer to God.The love that we are to show goes beyond the love that we have for our own family or parents.That is why its very difficult for non muslims to understand how much of hurt,pain and grief it creates within us when such disgusting cartoons are published.

Why is it that if a thread is started that talks about Islam or Muslims as if they are a single monolith, there are protests that this is unfair or inaccurate, but in that same thread you are quite comfortable to talk about Islam, Muslims or even non-Muslims (surely as diverse a group as you can get) as if each is a single group?

FYI its an article of our faith to believe and love all the Prophets(peace and blessings be upon them all).

Outstanding. Its a pity that this doesnt extend to the rest of Gods creatures.

Further please don't ask me who is we.

I'd be very interested to know who it is you think you are speaking on behalf of.
Further, as already requested, I'd be interested to know in what way the little scenario you presented earlier, that I answered in straightforward terms, relates to the OP.

 

[leibowde84]

Now this is your opinion.
Do you know what is meant by "article of faith"?

One "article of faith" for me is that cold-blooded murder over nothing more than a satirical cartoon is close to absolute evil, barring there is not some sort of mental disorder involved. Another "article of faith" for me is that no one, whatever religion or non-religion they adhere to, has the right to be free from being offended or having their system of beliefs offended. It is part of living in a diverse world. You have to take the bad with the good.

 

[leibowde84]

No, assuming by 'attacks' you mean cartoon drawings. As an atheist I have seen some pretty terrible things written about people with a similar world view to me. There are countries where the fact that I don't believe in God is illegal. To what lengths can I go to prevent this bigotry? None. My non-belief would never be protected by blasphemy laws (nor would I want it to be).

Seeking to control the opinions and beliefs of other humans via violence is evil.



War, huh? So you support the cold blooded murder of unarmed civillians because you disagreed with the pictures they drew and see them as insulting.

If drawing cartoons is 'war', then meet them with the same weapons. But no. Instead, they were murdered. Not war. Murder. It seems you are arrogant enough to support extreme violence regardless of the laws of the land, and to equate an unarmed cartoonist with a pencil to murderers with automatic weapons.




Why is it that if a thread is started that talks about Islam or Muslims as if they are a single monolith, there are protests that this is unfair or inaccurate, but in that same thread you are quite comfortable to talk about Islam, Muslims or even non-Muslims (surely as diverse a group as you can get) as if each is a single group?




Outstanding. Its a pity that this doesnt extend to the rest of Gods creatures.



I'd be very interested to know who it is you think you are speaking on behalf of.
Further, as already requested, I'd be interested to know in what way the little scenario you presented earlier, that I answered in straightforward terms, relates to the OP.

I agree. It seems a bit more important to love each other on earth, than it is to honor prophets who are long deceased.

 

[Salvador]

I don't agree with bigotry. I have a female doctor. I have some gay friends. I have some Jewish friends. I have a couple of Muslim friends on Facebook. If any Muslims were to exist in my community, then I'd probably have some personal Muslim friends. I accept everybody for who they are. I don't judge people's lifestyles. So, Faroukfarouk, I think that we can agree that we should embrace people who are different than ourselves. Let's live and let live.

 

[faroukfarouk]

One "article of faith" for me is that cold-blooded murder over nothing more than a satirical cartoon is close to absolute evil, barring there is not some sort of mental disorder involved. Another "article of faith" for me is that no one, whatever religion or non-religion they adhere to, has the right to be free from being offended or having their system of beliefs offended. It is part of living in a diverse world. You have to take the bad with the good.

Islam is not like Christianity nor is it like any other religion.
If your religion accepts such disgusting cartoons then please don't expect us to do the same.
What you call cold blooded murder i regard as justified killing.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I agree. It seems a bit more important to love each other on earth, than it is to honor prophets who are long deceased.

Note in Islam we do not hate anyone but we do hate is offensive actions.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Islam is not like Christianity nor is it like any other religion.
If your religion accepts such disgusting cartoons then please don't expect us to do the same.
What you call cold blooded murder i regard as justified killing.

This is the key point of why I don't agree with Islam. It is not a peaceful religion. It is not benign. I don't mean this as a personal insult to you but any justification of violence because of a cartoon drawing to me as an atheist seems at best silly and at worst disgusting. I don't believe you would go out and commit such a crime but you don't even see it as wrong to kill someone who insults Muhammad. If I were to insult Muhammad in a blasphemous way right now and a Muslim that overheard killed me would you think that justified?

 

[leibowde84]

Islam is not like Christianity nor is it like any other religion.
If your religion accepts such disgusting cartoons then please don't expect us to do the same.
What you call cold blooded murder i regard as justified killing.

You are welcome to have your opinions, but you have to be willing to be ridiculed for them when, to the non-Muslim world they seem extremely misguided. And if you expect us to tolerate your view, then shouldn't you have to tolerate ours that satirical cartoons are not justification for murder.

 

[Looncall]

You got to be joking.Do you think its going to stop the attacks.



If someone declares war on your religion and all peaceful avenues have failed then war is the only alternative.



We in Islam show love to all +-120,000 prophets that were sent to this World.Any attack on any of the Prophets(be it Nooh,Moses,Jesus,Abrahams,Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon them all) simply means an attack on God and Islam.They.the Prophets,were human like you and i but the difference is they were chosen by God to convey the message and as such we show respect and love to become closer to God.The love that we are to show goes beyond the love that we have for our own family or parents.That is why its very difficult for non muslims to understand how much of hurt,pain and grief it creates within us when such disgusting cartoons are published.
FYI its an article of our faith to believe and love all the Prophets(peace and blessings be upon them all).
Further please don't ask me who is we.

No one is trying to stop you loving your prophets. Carry right on.

However, non-muslims have no such duty. It is childish of muslims to insist that they do. It reminds me of the temper tantrums of small children.

If you don't like the cartoons, don't read the magazine. Grow up and realize that others see your religion as mistaken, have every right to do so, and have the right to say so. If you don't like it, tough.

 

[leibowde84]

Note in Islam we do not hate anyone but we do hate is offensive actions.

Nothing wrong with hating actions. but murdering because of them is contrary to the interests of a global society.