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Is Islam Responsible for the Charlie Hebdo Murders?
- Thread starter gsa
- Start date
Nox
Did i not say there brains will go into a spin?
they should pray to their Troll God that my english is really so crappy.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
I'll answer this question about what I'd do in this hypothetical situation, even though this question is only addressed to bigots who are Islamophobic. I'd fight to the death to defend my family and myself against a home intruder. However, I'd only use violence to protect myself or somebody else from being physically/sexually assaulted by a would-be killer or rapist. In the case of rape, there is almost always some DNA evidence that is able to convict the accused rapist. I do favor mandatory therapy for all aggressive sex offenders. I'm sorry if I come across as being cruel and inhumane towards those who have overactive sex hormones; but if somebody were to repeatedly commit rape, then I think society should have him chemically castrated.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Yes, I'm against the provocation of violent confrontation. I don't like to be argumentative or confrontational against the harmless beliefs of anybody.
Theweirdtophat
Well-Known Member
Islam is an idea. Ideas aren't responsible. The people are. The Islamic extremists are to blame, not Islam itself.
Drawing cartoons is only provocative if you have the mentality of a 4 year old. Welcome to Europe, where we can say whatever the hell we want about your Religion and we can draw pictures of whatever we like. We're not giving up our free speech just because some minority group is offended on religious grounds. You don't have the right not to be offended.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
In school, the only time I ever had confronted the class bully was when he had me cornered in the restroom. I had to fight back and escape him to protect myself from getting beat up and robbed. The classroom bully never picked on me again after I fought and escaped him. He found weaker boys to prey on instead of me.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
I'm neither religious nor easily offended. However, I do think it's a good idea for me not to offend the beliefs of Muslims.
I meant "you" in a general sense, not as in "thou". Referring to anyone who thinks he can subject beloved Europe to Mediaeval blasphemy laws.
Kenaz
I Am
There are beautiful actions that come from people who are religious. People are so immensely diverse, and change each moment. The same is applied, by me, to ideas or philosophies, no matter what they are labeled. Vilifying religion in one word is not a solution.
There are as many religions, Gods, tastes, [insert anything here to be interpreted by a conscious entity] as there are people [conscious entities].
Augustus
…
The problem with headlines for articles is that they are often clickbait or written by sensationalist sub-editors.
'Is islam responsible...' is very different from saying 'is there a connection...'.
There's no point in pretending there is no connection between ideologies and people's behaviour. An ideology is how you explain to yourself why you hold a belief or act in a certain way.
To say 'Islam is responsible...' though minimises the other factors that are at play. Extremist Islam is related to Islam just as Stalinism is related to social-democratic political thought, the goals are similar (a better society based on certain characteristics) but the methods of achieving them differ significantly.
It is probably more relevant to identify what drives people towards extremist, utopian ideologies of any kind as the factors seem to be similar, despite the differences between extremist ideologies. Some combination of a sense of injustice, social dislocation, economic uncertainty, antagonism towards 'mainstream' society, etc.
It is wrong to say it has nothing to do with Islam, just as it is wrong to say that it has everything to do with Islam. If Islam was the primary factor, there would be a whole lot more terrorism and while a larger number might be in some way sympathetic to the actions, the West was full of Soviet Union apologists well into the 1980s too. Because they agreed with the normative goals of communism, they found it hard to be unequivocally critical of its actions.
I couldn't be bothered to read the whole article, but the point it seems to be making is that there is some connection but many other factors are also at play. The headline, as they frequently are, is misleading. Never trust a headline.
'Is islam responsible...' is very different from saying 'is there a connection...'.
There's no point in pretending there is no connection between ideologies and people's behaviour. An ideology is how you explain to yourself why you hold a belief or act in a certain way.
To say 'Islam is responsible...' though minimises the other factors that are at play. Extremist Islam is related to Islam just as Stalinism is related to social-democratic political thought, the goals are similar (a better society based on certain characteristics) but the methods of achieving them differ significantly.
It is probably more relevant to identify what drives people towards extremist, utopian ideologies of any kind as the factors seem to be similar, despite the differences between extremist ideologies. Some combination of a sense of injustice, social dislocation, economic uncertainty, antagonism towards 'mainstream' society, etc.
It is wrong to say it has nothing to do with Islam, just as it is wrong to say that it has everything to do with Islam. If Islam was the primary factor, there would be a whole lot more terrorism and while a larger number might be in some way sympathetic to the actions, the West was full of Soviet Union apologists well into the 1980s too. Because they agreed with the normative goals of communism, they found it hard to be unequivocally critical of its actions.
I couldn't be bothered to read the whole article, but the point it seems to be making is that there is some connection but many other factors are also at play. The headline, as they frequently are, is misleading. Never trust a headline.
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xkatz
Well-Known Member
Ideas themselves are not capable of doing things. However, when people take those ideas into action...
While I will not (nor ever wish to) be malicious towards others, I will repudiate what I believe is wrong and erroneous.
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
You very easily explained how an offense that you might have taken against your supposed previous Christian faith could easily be brushed aside. Why can that same standard not be applied to those Muslims who feel so incredibly offended by a cartoon? Why, using your own application of thought, can't we just expect these people with the proverbial "stick up their ***" to get over it and not worry so much about it?
Here is an important difference in our ethics.
I might very well commit the murder of someone who did that to my family. But it is still murder and I would expect to be found guilty.
Maybe some leniency in the sentence, due to the circumstances. But it is still murder and must be punished. No matter how upset you are about anything, it doesn't justify murder, ever.
I think my morals are superior to yours because they will tend to result in more peace.
Tom
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Who is intollerant of your beliefs? How have they shown that they are intollerant specifically? Please include posts so we can report them to the Administrator of this site.
gsa
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting that the CH cartoons are equivalent to this rape/murder/torture scenario?
If I'm allowed to use the word "troll" then I will use it for whoever I want. So your staff membership cannot be a gun against me