Is Islam "untrue"?

[Riverwolf]

Because it wasn't observable by eyes.

What's not immediately observable can be calculated. Don't forget that an Alexandrian librarian managed to accurately calculate the circumference of the earth without ever leaving the city in his life.

Another such librarian managed to figure out that the Earth, and all the planets, circled the sun, in a time when the common wisdom was that the Earth was the center of the universe.

The word "librarian" doesn't adequately explain what these people were. These people were the kinds of people the geekiest of geeks wish they could be. Arch-Geeks, if you will.

So it will be only a guess work,but i don't believe on such a lucky guess

No, it's calculation.

as i don't believe on random mutation that caused our ancestors of monkeys to evolve to humans.

Neither does anyone else.

 

[FearGod]

What's not immediately observable can be calculated. Don't forget that an Alexandrian librarian managed to accurately calculate the circumference of the earth without ever leaving the city in his life.

We are talking about rotation of earth around it's own axis.
if you think they knew by calculation,then explain how ?

Another such librarian managed to figure out that the Earth, and all the planets, circled the sun, in a time when the common wisdom was that the Earth was the center of the universe.



The word "librarian" doesn't adequately explain what these people were. These people were the kinds of people the geekiest of geeks wish they could be. Arch-Geeks, if you will.

No, it's calculation.

if by calculation,then explain how ?

Neither does anyone else.

You can't include everyone,because many believe otherwise.

 

[McBell]

Because it wasn't observable by eyes.

You mean just like creation?

So it will be only a guess work,but i don't believe on such a lucky guess as i don't believe on random mutation that caused our ancestors of monkeys to evolve to humans.

the only ones I have make this claim has been creationists attacking strawmen.

Sorry,i don't believe on magic and guesses to become facts.

denial.
Not surprising.

 

[McBell]

You can't include everyone,because many believe otherwise.

Really?
Many?
Name some.

And do not try strawmanning evolution.
It will only further reveal your ignorance.

 

[FearGod]

Really?
Many?
Name some.

And do not try strawmanning evolution.
It will only further reveal your ignorance.

Good point,you are so smart.

 

[McBell]

Good point,you are so smart.

So you are unable to name even one of your claimed "many"?

 

[FearGod]

So you are unable to name even one of your claimed "many"?

Yes,you won the debate.

You have saved the others in this debate by just one sentence,how great are you !
Your comments are so valuable and enlightening.

 

[McBell]

Yes,you won the debate.

You have saved the others in this debate by just one sentence,how great are you !
Your comments are so valuable and enlightening.

What debate?
I merely asked you to support your claim.

Though it is nice that you finally admit your argument has been boiled down to your grasping straws.

 

[FearGod]

What debate?
I merely asked you to support your claim.

Though it is nice that you finally admit your argument has been boiled down to your grasping straws.

Yes i was grasping at straws and showing my ignorance.
Your comments were great and the truth was revealed.
Good Job.

Yes i finally admit.:yes:

Anything else buddy.

 

[McBell]

Yes i was grasping at straws and showing my ignorance.
Your comments were great and the truth was revealed.
Good Job.

Yes i finally admit.:yes:

Anything else buddy.

No need to take it so hard.
You win some you lose some.

Just stop trying so hard to give me credit for winning a debate when all I did was ask you to support your claim.

 

[Riverwolf]

We are talking about rotation of earth around it's own axis.
if you think they knew by calculation,then explain how ?

if by calculation,then explain how ?

You're asking someone who's not a mathematician to display a calculation.

I'm saying that the probability that someone calculated it is FAR more likely and believable that goddidit.

All it takes is the right variables.

But, then again, in terms of rotation, it's pretty easy to observe simply from the day-night cycle coupled with the knowledge of a round earth.

IOW, day-night-cycle + stars following the same rising-setting pattern the sun and moon do + the fact that the moon has phases + the fact that the Earth is round = extreme likelihood that the Earth rotates on its own axis to produce these effects.

You can't include everyone,because many believe otherwise.

Certainly no self-respecting biologist.

 

[FearGod]

But, then again, in terms of rotation, it's pretty easy to observe simply from the day-night cycle coupled with the knowledge of a round earth.

IOW, day-night-cycle + stars following the same rising-setting pattern the sun and moon do + the fact that the moon has phases + the fact that the Earth is round = extreme likelihood that the Earth rotates on its own axis to produce these effects.
.

And we can think as others thought in ancient times that the sun rotates around earth (Geocentric Model).

So the point is that we just make guesses and when a holy book get it all the way right and knowing that messengers were never scientist but teaching morality,honesty and all good deeds,then we have to think that the creator was present,that is my view.

 

[LuisDantas]

And we can think as others think in ancient times that the sun rotates around earth (Geocentric Model).

So the point is that we just make guesses and when a holy book get it all the way right and knowing that messengers where never scientist but teaching morality,honesty and all good deeds,then we have to think that the creator was present,that is my view.

You are of course free to believe that way, but I must point out that scientific (in this case, astronomical) observations are much more than just guesses.

People have realized that the Earth rotates around the Sun from far before Mohammed's time, and the Greek astronomical findings that (far as we can tell) first realized the Heliocentric model are a well-known influence on Arabic and Islamic science.

It may not have been common or well-accepted knowledge at the time when the Quran was written - I truly do not know - but it certainly would not consider it a miracle for one to know of that. Even producing that knowledge independently would be an important and remarkable achievement, but in no way a supernatural one.

 

[FearGod]

You are of course free to believe that way, but I must point out that scientific (in this case, astronomical) observations are much more than just guesses.

People have realized that the Earth rotates around the Sun from far before Mohammed's time, and the Greek astronomical findings that (far as we can tell) first realized the Heliocentric model are a well-known influence on Arabic and Islamic science.

It may not have been common or well-accepted knowledge at the time when the Quran was written - I truly do not know - but it certainly would not consider it a miracle for one to know of that. Even producing that knowledge independently would be an important and remarkable achievement, but in no way a supernatural one.

Actually im not defending the quran but similar books such as the one in hindus which mentioned that day and night is due to earth rotation around it's axis,so i can conclude that it was a devine message,but of course it is up to you to think otherwise

 

[Riverwolf]

And we can think as others thought in ancient times that the sun rotates around earth (Geocentric Model).

Yes, the common model.

And yet, as I've pointed out, we have a piece of burnt writing that demonstrates that an Alexandrian librarian had figured out that the Earth, in fact, circles the Sun.

So the point is that we just make guesses and when a holy book get it all the way right and knowing that messengers where never scientist but teaching morality,honesty and all good deeds,then we have to think that the creator was present,that is my view.

Just because the "messengers" weren't "scientists" doesn't mean they were completely deaf to the findings of the ubergeeks of the time.

'Sides, it could have been a demon. I fail to see why "the Creator" must have been the one. Perhaps the "Creator" was something like Azathoth, and this moral God is young.

I worship Oðinn as the Highest of the Gods, but he wasn't even the first King of the Aesir.

 

[Luke Morningstar]

I do not believe in anything other than the Quran, however feel free to discuss other Islamic scriptures and so on.

Under those terms, I think it's untrue.

Islam is not a book. It is not words. It is the submission to God's plan to bring peace and compassion and healing into the world.

Books are imperfect. Words are imperfect. Even if Arabic is the best language for God's message, it is still limited and human.

God's will is for us to explore His creation and learn from it, and grow closer to God as a result.

If you are limiting your belief to a single book, you are shutting out quite a lot.

I don't know. Maybe you need that. I'm not judging. You'll never get the full picture. There's not enough time.

I believe that God's plan is to be found in working with other people. Reading a book is great, but God cares more about what you do the rest of the time to prove yourself worthy.