Is Islam "untrue"?

[illykitty]

I too reationalise everything all the time, because there are conflicts.
But I'm pretty sure I would do that in any case.

I believe the Quran is a guide to, how humans should behave in order to be the best they can be.
The Quran is for us, not for Allah. He made it, so we have a path to follow.
Whether we choose to or not, is our own decision.
He just wishes us to follow it, because it's best for us... If that makes any sense to you?

I am also curious as to what conflicted with what you think is right or wrong, and the things that didn't make sense. Please, elaborate if you will.

If you want to I can send a PM since I'd rather not spam the thread with this stuff and leave some better posters to answer your questions.

 

[29dall]

If you want to I can send a PM since I'd rather not spam the thread with this stuff and leave some better posters to answer your questions.

Sure, please do

 

[FearGod]

Are you aware that much of the knowledge of the ancient world was lost when the Library of Alexandria burned?

We know that a Greek inventor had successfully made steam power over 2,000 years ago, and used it in a Temple to Apollo. Eratosthenes accurately measured the circumference of the Earth without ever leaving Alexandria circa 200 BCE. Furtheremore, in this world dominated by the Ptolemic Geocentric model of the universe, a small fragment of burnt paper was found in that library's ruins which states the exact opposite: that the Earth and all the other planets circled the sun.

So it's entirely possible that, living in a place such as Mecca, he would have heard all these things that people from a relatively close place in terms of geography knew.

And did the ancient world know that the universe was one entity

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..[Noble Quran 21:30]

And did they know that the universe is expanding ?

"The heaven, We have built it with power. Verily. We are expanding it." [51:47]

Did Mohammed know that the ancient world were correct about their theories about the universe that he confirmed it in the quran as the truth.

There were different theories,why he picked up the right ones which is confirmed just nowadays due to our advances in science,was he lucky or was he a briliant scientist even though that he got no instruments to confirm anything.

 

[Riverwolf]

And did the ancient world know that the universe was one entity

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..[Noble Quran 21:30]

The Cosmic Egg. A common mythological trope from Indo-European religions.

And did they know that the universe is expanding ?

"The heaven, We have built it with power. Verily. We are expanding it." [51:47]

Quite vague, if you ask me. Honestly, I'd need to see other translations.

Did Mohammed know that the ancient world were correct about their theories about the universe that he confirmed it in the quran as the truth.

There were different theories,why he picked up the right ones which is confirmed just nowadays due to our advances in science,was he lucky or was he a briliant scientist even though that he got no instruments to confirm anything.

Such instruments just make faster and more efficient calculations that were perfectly possible for the iron age uber-geeks.

In any case, such scientific miracles don't impress me, even if they were true, because of one simple question: why can't a demon have access to the same knowledge?

 

[29dall]

In any case, such scientific miracles don't impress me, even if they were true, because of one simple question: why can't a demon have access to the same knowledge?

What would the motivation of this demon be?

 

[FearGod]

In any case, such scientific miracles don't impress me, even if they were true, because of one simple question: why can't a demon have access to the same knowledge?

Because simply if by a demon then it should be something like this.

Drink wine if you wish,God make it possible for you to enjoy.

Adultery is forgivable,but worship me and repent all time.

Women were made fo your enjoyment,enjoy yourself with whom you wish and ask for my forgiveness,i created you just to enjoy.

Don't help the poors and slaves,they are sort of demons that i punished them on earth and i will save them only if i wish,so beat them and don't ever let them free.

That is how it hould be for a lovely quran authored by a demon for a world of prostition,sex out of marriage,drunk all night,many girlfriends,many boyfriends,poorness,oppression.....etc

 

[LuisDantas]

Regarding the OP and some of the later posts from its creator, it seems to be that the Abrahamic Faiths do not have to be proven untrue; they may simply be rejected, since adopting them demands belief in the God of Abraham.

If anything, that is even more true of Islam than of the other Faiths.

Sure, one can disprove the existence of the God of Abraham if he wants to. A good argument can be made based on the very existence of Atheists. An even better argument is that if there is a God, he can't possibly be one that wants everyone to believe in his existence.

As for the scientific miracles of the Quran, I truly have no idea of what they would be. For that matter, what I have read some of the Quran, it hardly seems to even attempt to present itself as a book of science, despite the insistence of many Muslims on the contrary.

So I guess the ball is back in your court. What is there in the Quran or in Islam that should be considered significant from a scientific perspective? May you give me one example of a Quranic or Islamic scientific miracle?

And for that matter, why take the Quran as a truer scripture than any other? I can see the argument for prefering it over the Christian Bible, but otherwise it doesn't hold up particularly well in my opinion.

 

[29dall]

Regarding the OP and some of the later posts from its creator, it seems to be that the Abrahamic Faiths do not have to be proven untrue; they may simply be rejected, since adopting them demands belief in the God of Abraham.

If anything, that is even more true of Islam than of the other Faiths.

Sure, one can disprove the existence of the God of Abraham if he wants to. A good argument can be made based on the very existence of Atheists. An even better argument is that if there is a God, he can't possibly be one that wants everyone to believe in his existence.

As for the scientific miracles of the Quran, I truly have no idea of what they would be. For that matter, what I have read some of the Quran, it hardly seems to even attempt to present itself as a book of science, despite the insistence of many Muslims on the contrary.

So I guess the ball is back in your court. What is there in the Quran or in Islam that should be considered significant from a scientific perspective? May you give me one example of a Quranic or Islamic scientific miracle?

And for that matter, why take the Quran as a truer scripture than any other? I can see the argument for prefering it over the Christian Bible, but otherwise it doesn't hold up particularly well in my opinion.

Just because there are Atheist, doesn't mean ALlah does not exist... How you figure? Furthermore, why is it impossible for him to want everyone his existence? Please elaborate your arguments.

I would NEVER EVER call the holy Quran a book of science. That would be very misleading. I don't call a book a science book, just because some of the books content is scientific. You are misinterperting my words. Go google the miracles, why should you take my word? I am certainly no scientist...

I already stated that I believe that Quran to be Allahs words. Given the scientific miracles of it, I see no other explanation. It's too vague to asume it was a bunch of wild guesses. But I have already explained this.

 

[Godobeyer]

the scholars or Imams ,they had individual opinions ,could be taking if it's had a strong and clear argument (reference) from Quran or Hadith .

I am not with considerate all Imams or scholars speachs as HOLLY speachs because it's maybe there is other opinion which could be commun and adapted more that his opinion .

 

[LuisDantas]

Just because there are Atheist, doesn't mean ALlah does not exist...

Of course it doesn't.

It does however mean that there is no God that chose to make me so that I believe in His existence.

Which by necessity means by its turn that I am entitled to reject any Faith that demands belief in His existence.

Sure, I have heard that there are those who believe (sincerely in many cases, I have no doubt) that Atheism is in some sense a choice or even a character flaw.

That, however, I can assure you to be a seriously mistaken belief.

How you figure? Furthermore, why is it impossible for him to want everyone his existence? Please elaborate your arguments.

It obviously isn't. If it were, there would be no Atheists. Ever.

I would NEVER EVER call the holy Quran a book of science. That would be very misleading. I don't call a book a science book, just because some of the books content is scientific. You are misinterperting my words. Go google the miracles, why should you take my word? I am certainly no scientist...

I'm not willing to misrepresent what you said, and I don't think I did. I just don't see what science content there might be in the Quran. It doesn't seem to have any, and I am puzzled that people state otherwise.

Why even bring the matter of science or of a scientific miracle (whatever that might be; I have no idea) to what is ultimately a matter of Faith anyway? I honestly don't know.

I already stated that I believe that Quran to be Allahs words. Given the scientific miracles of it, I see no other explanation. It's too vague to asume it was a bunch of wild guesses. But I have already explained this.

I will check the previous posts then. Maybe you clarified then.

 

[FearGod]

Of course it doesn't.

It does however mean that there is no God that chose to make me so that I believe in His existence.

Which by necessity means by its turn that I am entitled to reject any Faith that demands belief in His existence.

Sure, I have heard that there are those who believe (sincerely in many cases, I have no doubt) that Atheism is in some sense a choice or even a character flaw.

That, however, I can assure you to be a seriously mistaken belief.





It obviously isn't. If it were, there would be no Atheists. Ever.




I'm not willing to misrepresent what you said, and I don't think I did. I just don't see what science content there might be in the Quran. It doesn't seem to have any, and I am puzzled that people state otherwise.

Why even bring the matter of science or of a scientific miracle (whatever that might be; I have no idea) to what is ultimately a matter of Faith anyway? I honestly don't know.



I will check the previous posts then. Maybe you clarified then.

i don't believe im what God wanted me to be (believer or disbeliever) which means i got zero free will,
that have been already discussed many times that angels are created to obey God but not humans.

And if thy Lord had willed, whoever is in the earth would have believed, all of them, all together. Wouldst thou then constrain the people, until they are believers? (10:99)

 

[Sleeppy]

1) How do we verify Muhammad's illiteracy, considering the stature of his first wife and quite large family, which had great authority in that region?

2) Why send a book to an illiterate and corruptible society, but take the last Messenger of God away? If you may, you should pray to God asking for angels, like Gabriel, to accompany every illiterate, barbaric, and misguided person; the entire human race! God is Almighty. His Mercy is infinite.

2) What miracles are attributed to Muhammad? What role do miracles play with the everyday person?

3) How do we verify the Quran as the truth on certain historical events, which blatantly calls several other earlier Jewish and Christian sources false?

4) Why is Islam dualistic?

 

[LuisDantas]

i don't believe im what God wanted me to be (believer or disbeliever) which means i got zero free will,
that have been already discussed many times that angels are created to obey God but not humans.

And if thy Lord had willed, whoever is in the earth would have believed, all of them, all together. Wouldst thou then constrain the people, until they are believers? (10:99)

Quite frankly, I don't understand what the point of free will would be. I never understood the concept, and I guess I don't believe in it.

 

[Gui10]

In my opinion, Islam is an untrue religion because it relies on a God that has preferences towards how people live yet he created us deviant and will send some of us to burn in eternal fire for having been created that way and having been unable to believe in an idea which seems unlogical to us. (keep in mind that if he created me, he must has also have created my logic and my reasoning therefore how am I to blame for not believing in such a god)

 

[arthra]

arthra, the story you refer to is actually from the Hadith. As I stated, I only believe in what the Quran says

Check around the Surih al-Khaf (18) and ayah (verses) sixty to eighty three..it has the story of Moses and Khidh r.

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.wahiduddin/18:75

The reason I refer it to you is that it defies everyday "logic" ..

 

[Riverwolf]

What would the motivation of this demon be?

Teh lulz.

 

[Riverwolf]

Because simply if by a demon then it should be something like this.

Drink wine if you wish,God make it possible for you to enjoy.

Adultery is forgivable,but worship me and repent all time.

Women were made fo your enjoyment,enjoy yourself with whom you wish and ask for my forgiveness,i created you just to enjoy.

Don't help the poors and slaves,they are sort of demons that i punished them on earth and i will save them only if i wish,so beat them and don't ever let them free.

That is how it hould be for a lovely quran authored by a demon for a world of prostition,sex out of marriage,drunk all night,many girlfriends,many boyfriends,poorness,oppression.....etc

Why should a Qur'an authored by a demon be like that? I'd think they'd be more clever than that.

 

[FearGod]

Check around the Surih al-Khaf (18) and ayah (verses) sixty to eighty three..it has the story of Moses and Khidh r.

Tanzil - Quran Navigator |

The reason I refer it to you is that it defies everyday "logic" ..

And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Book: You shall do corruption in the earth twice, and you shall ascend exceeding high. (17:4)


So, when the promise of the first of these came to pass, We sent against you servants of Ours, men of great might, and they went through the habitations, and it was a promise performed. (17:5)

And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations. (17:104)

The above verses is another example how the future is planned already by God.

But you may ask,why God gave Israel the power and the strength first (shall ascend exceeding high) ?
and why God promised them to be trapped in one land after gathering them from all nations which is clearly talking about nowadays which is a sign for the approaching of end times and the return of Jesus to lead our world.

 

[FearGod]

Why should a Qur'an authored by a demon be like that? I'd think they'd be more clever than that.

The quran is all about to follow the good deeds and to reject the bad ones.
is that the path of demon ?

 

[Riverwolf]

The quran is all about to follow the good deeds and to reject the bad ones.
is that the path of demon ?

You don't know your trickster Gods very well, do you?

The most convincing lies are sprinkled among a whole bunch of truths.