Is Islamic faith reasonable.

[Quiddity]

Reason is a very well-defined thing. The red-flag phrase is suggesting that anyone should be reasonable.

Should or can?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

How it is reasonable to believe in a religion began by a man who fought 68 battles, at least some offensive in nature, and committed acts some scholars suggest were atrocities?

Have you read the atrocities in the OT?

How is it reasonable to believe in a religious book written by God that has whole sections of gnostic gospels known to be uninspired and incorrect circulating in Arabia at this time copied as scripture?

You don't seem to know very much about how your bible was put together let alone focusing on some one else's religious text.

Or to believe in the Quran when compared to the bible, a source hundreds of years closer to the event of the crucifixion with actual witnesses, details are illogically incorrect?

Not all the gospels agree on the details of the supposed crucifixion. In fact they actually contradict one another. The book of Mark is silent on the birth narrative even though it was the earliest of the gospels. It's known that Matthew and Luke drew most of their material from Mark and yet they, even though written years later, contain the birth story. Should we conclude that the writers made the story up or should we accept it because the scrolls were bound together in one book?

How is it reasonable to believe a religion founded on the word of one man?
A man who said he thought he was either possessed or going insane after his cave visit with an angel. The more witnesses the better.

What witnesses. The gospels are penned by various anonymous authors and we have no concrete idea what witnesses they had access to seeing as though their books appear well after the supposed death of Yeshua. And before throwing stones I don't see Paul's claims any more credible than those of Muhammad.

How is it reasonable to believe in a religion that claims Allah fights with them when they are defeated over and over again when attacking a country (Israel) that is 1% their total combined size and they outnumber 50 to 1 at least?

Do you know anything about Islamic battles throughout history and how much of the world they actually did rule?

Islamic faith is just as reasonable as Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism....etc..etc....

 

[-Peacemaker-]

The better question is whether or not you can back your claims:

We actually have ancient copies of the NT, enough of them to verify that no corruption took place. The fact that this claim is almost universally accepted in the Islamic world makes me wonder about the level of education of most Muslims.
​

Perhaps it is your level of education that should be questioned.

There's somewhere in the neighborhood of 24,000 ancient NT manuscripts in existence with more than 5,300 of the original Greek, the earliest of which date from the second century. These manuscripts are from all over the ancient world. With such a vast collection, scholars can easily piece together what the original looked like. The charge of literal corruption of the texts simply makes no sense. I've even read quotes from Muslims scholars admitting the absurdity of this charge.

 

[F0uad]

You said:

The Hadiths themselves are considered to be Historical ''Evidence'' even Western Scholars and Historians agree on the Authentic Hadiths that have been collected by other Historians. Like i said before even Mohammed's(saws) enemies called him Trustworthy and he was never accused of lying so off-course one of hes greatest companion beliefs him. Heck all the muslims believed him they were just asking Abu bakr, if they didn't belief him and if people do not belief him even now then there wouldn't be any ''Muslims'' what seems logical?

Just because people believe something it doesn't make it true,no matter how many believe it.

So if someone tells you that China exist you will refuse it?
If we are going to reject the majority of all Historians and Scholars we can reject all History in that matter heck i can reject my own birth if that is your argument.

 

[England my lionheart]

So if someone tells you that China exist you will refuse it?
If we are going to reject the majority of all Historians and Scholars we can reject all History in that matter heck i can reject my own birth if that is your argument.

I can go to China,i can check it out for for myself,as for rejecting a majority of historians and Scholars there are many that have got or are getting it wrong,i suppose it depends on who you consider a good historian or Scholar.

 

[F0uad]

I can go to China,i can check it out for for myself,as for rejecting a majority of historians and Scholars there are many that have got or are getting it wrong,i suppose it depends on who you consider a good historian or Scholar.

I think when the majority accepts it then we can probably accept it to?
This majority includes the best historians and scholars off-course.
I actually never heard of a ''Scholar or Historian'' with a high degree that denied the Authentic Hadiths being Historical evidence. Maybe your just trying to throw anything you can against what i said and came up with this?

 

[PolyHedral]

I think when the majority accepts it then we can probably accept it to?
This majority includes the best historians and scholars off-course.
I actually never heard of a ''Scholar or Historian'' with a high degree that denied the Authentic Hadiths being Historical evidence. Maybe your just trying to throw anything you can against what i said and came up with this?

So why aren't all the historians Muslim?

 

[England my lionheart]

I think when the majority accepts it then we can probably accept it to?
This majority includes the best historians and scholars off-course.
I actually never heard of a ''Scholar or Historian'' with a high degree that denied the Authentic Hadiths being Historical evidence. Maybe your just trying to throw anything you can against what i said and came up with this?

Who do you regard as "the best historians and Scholars",it would be interesting to see what degree these Scholars are,i think what you are describing is faith.

 

[F0uad]

So why aren't all the historians Muslim?

Huh what, first of all Hadiths are not proving that the book is god's word.

There are different kinds of Hadiths one is for example the History ''what is accepted'' by the majority and the other is Biography of Mohammed(saws)''Most accept'' and the other one is what happened during those events'''Disagreement and agreement''.

The General history mentioned in the Hadiths that speak about the past are accepted not only by Muslim scholars/historians but by Atheist/Christians and you can go on..
History can be proven by: Oral tradition(with a valid chain-of-narration), text, paintings/pictures or common sense. All these three things are implied in Islamic/Arabic history.

 

[F0uad]

Who do you regard as "the best historians and Scholars",it would be interesting to see what degree these Scholars are,i think what you are describing is faith.

Can you stop saying ''Faith'' i already gave you an example how your argument fails. Like i said give me one example of a Historian or Scholar who dis-agrees with the ''Authentic'' Hadiths who has a high degree of such things. While on the other hand all History-Books and historical information directly comes from the Hadiths, text and pictures yes even those that you find in the library.

 

[beerisit]

Can you stop saying ''Faith'' i already gave you an example how your argument fails. Like i said give me one example of a Historian or Scholar who dis-agrees with the ''Authentic'' Hadiths who has a high degree of such things. While on the other hand all History-Books and historical information directly comes from the Hadiths, text and pictures yes even those that you find in the library.

The Chinese among others will be surprised to hear that.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

While we're on the topic of ancient texts, can a Muslim please enlighten me regarding the claim of the Koran's perfection? I'm not interested in hearing the rantings of your local imam on the subject. I want to hear what HISTORY has to say about it. Surely ancient manuscripts of the Koran have been recovered and studied. What type of variations exist between them?

 

[Desert Snake]

No, it's not.

 

[Gharib]

No, it's not.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Gharib]

While we're on the topic of ancient texts, can a Muslim please enlighten me regarding the claim of the Koran's perfection? I'm not interested in hearing the rantings of your local imam on the subject. I want to hear what HISTORY has to say about it. Surely ancient manuscripts of the Koran have been recovered and studied. What type of variations exist between them?

You don't know anything about Islam do you?

 

[England my lionheart]

Can you stop saying ''Faith'' i already gave you an example how your argument fails. Like i said give me one example of a Historian or Scholar who dis-agrees with the ''Authentic'' Hadiths who has a high degree of such things. While on the other hand all History-Books and historical information directly comes from the Hadiths, text and pictures yes even those that you find in the library.

There are no flying Mules,there was no Mosque during Muhammeds lifetime in Jerusalem,even if we change to Masjid what was Muhammed describing to the people who didn't believe him,i think its fair to call that faith.

I would be interested to see a non Muslim Scholar or historian who believes the night journey was an actual physical event.

 

[arthra]

England:

Actually if you consider the meaning of the word "Buraq" in Arabic it means lightning..not flying mule...

Al-Burāq (Arabic: البُراق‎ al-Burāq "lightning")

We've already discussed this before .. The actual word is Masjid not Mosque ... A Masjid is a place of prostration/worship and Jerusalem was certainly a place where this occurred...

Apparently at least one non-Muslim poet was influenced by the story...and a non-Muslim professor wrote about it!

In 1919, Professor Miguel Asín Palacios, a Spanish scholar and a Catholic priest, published La Escatología musulmana en la Divina Comedia ("Islamic Eschatology in the Divine Comedy"), an account of parallels between early Islamic philosophy and the Divine Comedy. Palacios argued that Dante derived many features of and episodes about the hereafter from the spiritual writings of Ibn Arabi and from the Isra and Mi'raj or night journey of Muhammad to heaven. The latter is described in the Hadith and the Kitab al Miraj (translated into Latin in 1264 or shortly before[42] as Liber Scalae Machometi, "The Book of Muhammad's Ladder"), and has some slight similarities to the Paradiso, such as a sevenfold division of Paradise,[43] although this is not unique to the Kitab al Miraj.
Some "superficial similarities"[44] of the Divine Comedy to the Resalat Al-Ghufran or Epistle of Forgiveness of Al-Ma'arri have also been mentioned in this debate. The Resalat Al-Ghufran describes the journey of the poet in the realms of the afterlife and includes dialogue with people in Heaven and Hell, although, unlike the Kitab al Miraj, there is little description of these locations,[45] and it is unlikely that Dante borrowed from this work.[46][47]
Dante did, however, live in a Europe of substantial literary and philosophical contact with the Muslim world, encouraged by such factors as Averroism ("Averrois, che'l gran comento feo" Commedia, Inferno, IV, 144, meaning "Averrois, who wrote the great comment") and the patronage of Alfonso X of Castile. Of the twelve wise men Dante meets in Canto X of the Paradiso, Thomas Aquinas and, even more so, Siger of Brabant were strongly influenced by Arabic commentators on Aristotle.[48] Medieval Christian mysticism also shared the Neoplatonic influence of Sufis such as Ibn Arabi. Philosopher Frederick Copleston argued in 1950 that Dante's respectful treatment of Averroes, Avicenna, and Siger of Brabant indicates his acknowledgement of a "considerable debt" to Islamic philosophy.[48]

Divine Comedy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Revoltingest]

is any religious belief more reasonable than another?
:no:

The ones which make fewer specific disprovable claims would be more reasonable.
But since each is neither adopted by nor subject to reason, they're unreasonable.
Sure, sure, adherents will list reasons why they believe their faith is true, but this
is just to validate the position they've already adopted. We never see rigorous
comprehensive & objective analysis or comparison with other faiths.

 

[England my lionheart]

Well its hardly startling arthra,one poet,as suggested by F0uad i've looked for a non Muslim Scholar or historian that believes Muhammed made a physical/spiritual journey to Jerusalem,so far i'm up to zero.

 

[Gharib]

Well its hardly startling arthra,one poet,as suggested by F0uad i've looked for a non Muslim Scholar or historian that believes Muhammed made a physical/spiritual journey to Jerusalem,so far i'm up to zero.

Why don't you also look up to find if anyone who believes in God approves of Atheism?