Is Islamic faith reasonable.

[arthra]

Well its hardly startling arthra,one poet,as suggested by F0uad i've looked for a non Muslim Scholar or historian that believes Muhammed made a physical/spiritual journey to Jerusalem,so far i'm up to zero.

Careful England.. Someday you might be transported by lightning to a place you don't want to be..and no one will believe you! You'd be up to Zero!

 

[beerisit]

Careful England.. Someday you might be transported by lightning to a place you don't want to be..and no one will believe you! You'd be up to Zero!

And then again probably not.

 

[Muffled]

How it is reasonable to believe in a religion began by a man who fought 68 battles, at least some offensive in nature, and committed acts some scholars suggest were atrocities?

How is it reasonable to believe in a religious book written by God that has whole sections of gnostic gospels known to be uninspired and incorrect circulating in Arabia at this time copied as scripture? Or to believe in the Quran when compared to the bible, a source hundreds of years closer to the event of the crucifixion with actual witnesses, details are illogically incorrect?

How is it reasonable to believe a religion founded on the word of one man?
A man who said he thought he was either possessed or going insane after his cave visit with an angel. The more witnesses the better.

How is it reasonable to believe in a religion that claims Allah fights with them when they are defeated over and over again when attacking a country (Israel) that is 1% their total combined size and they outnumber 50 to 1 at least?

I apologize for the directness of the questions, as no insult is intended. I have asked Muslims to address these issues many times but I never gotten a reasonable answer and very few unreasonable ones.

Thanks in advance for your comments.
God Bless,
Selah

SINCE NOONE CAN BELIEVE I WAS ASKING FOR ONLY ANSWERS. I WILL ASSUME IT IS MY FAULT AND CHANGE THE QUESTION SOMEWHAT

CAN ANY MUSLIM EXPLAIN THE ABOVE POINTS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THEIR FAITH?

As someone coming from a Baptist background I can say that I find Islam reasonable because God finds it reassonable.

This isn't so strange whenever the Israelites went out to fight without God they lost also. A nation can't just assume that God is on their side.

Christianity is founded on one man, Jesus.

I don't know of a book written by God that would be uninspired or incorrect. I know of the Qu'ran that I would call partly direct quote by an angel and partly inspired but not even the Bible is written by God (except for the Ten Commandments which He wrote on stone tablets and "the writing on the wall.")

My experience is that Muslims aren't very good at debating. Perhaps it is due to a lack of questioning their own beliefs that is part of their culture whereas Christians question their beliefs all the time.

 

[F0uad]

Well its hardly startling arthra,one poet,as suggested by F0uad i've looked for a non Muslim Scholar or historian that believes Muhammed made a physical/spiritual journey to Jerusalem,so far i'm up to zero.

Its funny how you went from one subject to the other sorry to say this but i find it weak to mix the two.

We were talking about Hadiths in General and i was talking about Historical Hadiths not Islamic teachings. Just a simple advice people already answered you on the subject so stop repeating yourself.

 

[Revoltingest]

My experience is that Muslims aren't very good at debating. Perhaps it is due to a lack of questioning their own beliefs that is part of their culture whereas Christians question their beliefs all the time.

I don't find Muslims any worse at debating than other believers. (But of course, I haven't quantified this view either.) Just as with Xians, it depends
upon the individual's talent & how they view their own faith. Some Muslims & Xians are pretty reasonable, & some are......well....challenged.

 

[Muffled]

Careful England.. Someday you might be transported by lightning to a place you don't want to be..and no one will believe you! You'd be up to Zero!

I am looking forward to being transported. It sounds like the thrill of a lifetime. Then I would like to fly as the Bhudda was reported to have done in some of the traditions relating to his life.

 

[England my lionheart]

Careful England.. Someday you might be transported by lightning to a place you don't want to be..and no one will believe you! You'd be up to Zero!

Oh i doubt that,sometimes i get transported by my Wife to go shopping,certainly somewhere i don't want to be and normally ends up with too many zero's being spent

 

[Muffled]

I don't find Muslims any worse at debating than other believers. (But of course, I haven't quantified this view either.) Just as with Xians, it depends
upon the individual's talent & how they view their own faith. Some Muslims & Xians are pretty reasonable, & some are......well....challenged.

It isn't anything personal. My experience is that atheists are good debaters. There seems to be a natural questioning of everything including their own reality. Actually the Christian Scientists are also good at questioning their own reality also.

 

[England my lionheart]

Its funny how you went from one subject to the other sorry to say this but i find it weak to mix the two.

We were talking about Hadiths in General and i was talking about Historical Hadiths not Islamic teachings. Just a simple advice people already answered you on the subject so stop repeating yourself.

Well i am talking about a particular alledged event,is the hadith of the night jorney included in the "historical hadiths" or not,if it is its not history,unless of course you can prove otherwise,take as long as you need.

 

[F0uad]

Well i am talking about a particular alledged event,is the hadith of the night jorney included in the "historical hadiths" or not,if it is its not history,unless of course you can prove otherwise,take as long as you need.

You know there is a difference between Islamic teachings that are based on Hadith and General Historical Hadith right? I think by this you can come to your own conclusion?
I think i have told you before if all Historians would agree with ALL ''Islamic'' Hadiths they would all have been Muslims by now, i was referring to the ''Historical Hadiths''.

 

[England my lionheart]

You know there is a difference between Islamic teachings that are based on Hadith and General Historical Hadith right? I think by this you can come to your own conclusion?
I think i have told you before if all Historians would agree with ALL ''Islamic'' Hadiths they would all have been Muslims by now, i was referring to the ''Historical Hadiths''.

I have come to my own conclusion,Muhammed never flew on a winged Mule to Jerusalem to the farthest Mosque/Masjid,there is no evidence to suggest otherwise,at best you could say he dreamed he went there,like i said earlier,this is whrere faith comes in.

 

[Muffled]

You know there is a difference between Islamic teachings that are based on Hadith and General Historical Hadith right? I think by this you can come to your own conclusion?
I think i have told you before if all Historians would agree with ALL ''Islamic'' Hadiths they would all have been Muslims by now, i was referring to the ''Historical Hadiths''.

If it isn't in the Qu'ran then it is highly doubful that it happened.

My conclusion is that historians come from different belief systems and it is highly unlikely that belief in Hadiths would change that. But then it is highly unlikely that any historian other than an Islamic one would agree with the Hadiths.

 

[England my lionheart]

If it isn't in the Qu'ran then it is highly doubful that it happened.

My conclusion is that historians come from different belief systems and it is highly unlikely that belief in Hadiths would change that. But then it is highly unlikely that any historian other than an Islamic one would agree with the Hadiths.

This is what the Qur'an says:

1. Glory to ((Allah)) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

doesn't give much away does it.

 

[F0uad]

If it isn't in the Qu'ran then it is highly doubful that it happened.

My conclusion is that historians come from different belief systems and it is highly unlikely that belief in Hadiths would change that. But then it is highly unlikely that any historian other than an Islamic one would agree with the Hadiths.

The ''Journey'' can be seen as a Physical or Spiritual journey so i don't see any errors in it also there is ''no mule'' it says something similar to lighting you have to remember that ''Miracles'' exist in religion.

I would agree on the first sentence of your conclusion, like i said before there are two/three kind of hadiths. And the majority of Historians (let it be a atheist or a Christian) agree Generally on the ''Historical Hadiths'' and not the Islamic teachings of Hadiths. I would say that the Journey is inside the ''Islamic Teaching of hadith'' its easy to conclude that because it was something that Mohammed(saws) ''saw'' or ''believed that happened''

 

[F0uad]

This is what the Qur'an says:

1. Glory to ((Allah)) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

doesn't give much away does it.

I really don't see your point of the ''Journey'' i mean you know that Muslims belief in ''Miracles'' so what is the thing your trying to point out?

 

[Revoltingest]

My experience is that atheists are good debaters. There seems to be a natural questioning of everything including their own reality.

The "natural questioning" trait seems a good explanation.
It could also be that we since we lack dogma, we've very little to defend.
Tis easy to debate when one takes fewer shaky positions.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

You don't know anything about Islam do you?

I know many Muslims claim that the Arabic Koran in cirulation today is exactly the same as the original. I want to hear if examinations of the oldest existing manuscripts of the Koran actually testify to the truthfulness of this claim

 

[arthra]

It's interesting I think when you consider the influence the Ascent of Prophet Muhammad had on the culture!

Isra and Mi'raj - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Sufi view:

Technology of the Heart: Symbology of the Prophets Ascension (The Miraj)

 

[England my lionheart]

It's interesting I think when you consider the influence the Ascent of Prophet Muhammad had on the culture!

Isra and Mi'raj - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Sufi view:

Technology of the Heart: Symbology of the Prophets Ascension (The Miraj)

It certainly has an influence on Palestine,none of it good unfortunately,it always surprises me how much of an impact mythology can have on real life to such an extent that people are willing to kill others or indeed themselves because of it.

 

[England my lionheart]

I really don't see your point of the ''Journey'' i mean you know that Muslims belief in ''Miracles'' so what is the thing your trying to point out?

That it was,from what we know, impossible,just like Jesus walking on water,getting all the animals on Noahs ark,a 90 foot tall Adam,Moses parting the Red sea etc etc.