Is it ever okay to steal?

[~Shocher emit~]

1Co 6:10 NorG3777 thieves,G2812 norG3777 covetous,G4123 norG3777 drunkards,G3183 norG3756 revilers,G3060 norG3756 extortioners,G727 shall(G3756) inheritG2816 the kingdomG932 of Elohim.G2316

I see the word "Thieves" as number G2812...........

G2812

κλέπτης

kleptēs

Thayer Definition:

1) an embezzler, pilferer
1a) the name is transferred to false teachers, who do not care to instruct men, but abuse their confidence for their own gain

I see it be more for ones gain than need or survival. Also it is interesting to me that it be just before "Covetous" as number G4123..........

G4123

πλεονέκτης

pleonektēs

Thayer Definition:

1) one eager to have more, especially what belongs to others
2) greedy of gain, covetous

My conclusion is if one steals out of needy, and a survivalist, intent, keyword here is "intent", and not a malicious intent of greed nor self gain, like stealing something to sell or trade for things of vanity, then it may not be looked on as stealing. What of the poor that gleam from the fields the food they need? Did they have to ask for permission prior to entering onto another’s property to take that which didn’t belong to them? It is commanded to those that plant a field that at the time of harvest to not gleam the edges of the field for the poor and widows sake. There are times when taking is not considered stealing and this example is one of those instances.

 

[~Shocher emit~]

Exo 23:4 "If you meet your enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, you shall surely bring it back to him again.

My conclusion is that if you find your neighbors milk cow on your property then you could milk it for milk to give to your children and yourself if there is need for such. The cow may have found its way there for that purpose. But once you have that of your need you should return the cow to its rightful owner.

 

[Riverwolf]

Even if one is starving he could ask for food rather than steal. Stealing has no excuses and never can be ok.

That's what I said. Necessary and ok are completely different.

Just because something is necessary doesn't make it okay. But if something that is not ok becomes necessary, then there are multiple guilty parties.

 

[Riverwolf]

If you prepare adequately for an event, you won't starve during or directly after the event. And when the weather/event clears, unless we're talking something of apocalyptic proportions, help will arrive OR a family can contact their local EOC to inquire about food distribution. That phone call should be made before the event occurs.

I have a problem with people who justify stealing and rioting (which is par for the course, after disasters) when there are other options available to them. Even after Hurricane Katrina, when America saw first hand how important it is to prepare, our nation continues to be complacent. Less than 20% (I think it's less than 10% but I can't find the stats to confirm) of Americans are prepared for the next event. That's sad.

Are you aware of how much work is going into preparing for "the big one" over here in California?

Exactly. Not very much.

 

[Peace]

Peace, let me disagree. I don't think we can blame the starving person if he stole food or even money to feed himself or his family.

But sister why to resort to stealing instead of asking people for food if one is really starving. Are people so mean and bad not to give food for those in need? Anyone who steals will make starving as an excuse, then stealing will widespread. I am not saying to put those who stole for food in jail, of course their countries are responsible too and should find them a solution in that case.
You know well sister what happened to our beloved Prophet peace be upon him and the Muslims while still in makkah before the Hijrah. They were surrounded in one place for three years and the leaders of Quraych forbid anybody to sell them anything or buy from them anything or deal with them at all. They were starving, really starving for three years... did they resort to stealing? they could find nothing to eat and were eating the leaves of the trees... Did the Prophet allow them to steal?

 

[Riverwolf]

But sister why to resort to stealing instead of asking people for food if one is really starving. Are people so mean and bad not to give food for those in need? Anyone who steals will make starving as an excuse, then stealing will widespread. I am not saying to put those who stole for food in jail, of course their countries are responsible too and should find them a solution in that case.
You know well sister what happened to our beloved Prophet peace be upon him and the Muslims while still in makkah before the Hijrah. They were surrounded in one place for three years and the leaders of Quraych forbid anybody to sell them anything or buy from them anything or deal with them at all. They were starving, really starving for three years... did they resort to stealing? they could find nothing to eat and were eating the leaves of the trees... Did the Prophet allow them to steal?

Truly it would be better to live off of the land than to steal from someone who has children to feed as well. For the land does have food, and those who are starving often forget this fact.

Unfortunately, in this day and age, natural food is scarce, and most people are under some strange impression that you can "own" land, therefore eating the leaves of a tree could be considered stealing. (I believe such concepts as "owning the land" to be complete BS)

And by the way, in America many storeowneres are that mean. Local family run stores might show mercy, depending on the situation, but no supermarket clerk would give food for free to a starving person, because they'd be fired.

 

[Sunstone]

Would it be ok to steal an enemy's weapons in a time of war?

 

[trucolorado]

well the fact is life’s tough and everyone else steals whether you like it or not. When one has the opportunity to steal in a fashion that aligns with his current beliefs(or conscience)… he steals. It’s just nature.

 

[leahrachelle]

Stealing is never ok.

But there are situations where there may be no other choice, like if you're starving. But that doesn't make it okay.

If you're starving, I would say its OKAY, but I dont know what you think the definition of that to be

 

[leahrachelle]

Thanks be to God I don't live in a country where people are so mean to give food. The Muslim country is a society of charity and solidarity.

In America we kick hobos :/

 

[leahrachelle]

By stealing? to feed my children Haram food? a food which is not theirs.

If it is going to rot and nobody will take it then it belongs to nobody...

 

[leahrachelle]

In some ways, I think of it as okay to steal from someone who has basically stolen in the first place. Like I was thinking about this the other day - If i heard of someone who stole from a rich guy who scammed people for money all his life and then they gave the money they stole to the poor, I would say, good for them.

 

[leahrachelle]

The only time its ok is when its sanctioned by congress, and you are a CEO for a huge company, like AIG or Bear Sterns, and the amount is in the billions. THEN its just fine.

Oh yes, of course

 

[leahrachelle]

Oh and I forgot, I stole an expensive program though I won't mention the name
But really, an $1000 photo editing program..
Rip-off. COMPLETELY not worth it. They could sell it for $50 and make a profit - which I would have bought it for..
I have a layout and graphic website and there is no possible way I would have ever been able to afford that.
But when you have the expired trial sitting on your computer and you just happen to come across a serial code..
And it doesn't hurt the person that the serial code actually belonged to too because they can just call the company, give them their proof of purchase, and they'll easily get a new serial code.

 

[Comicaze247]

Oh and I forgot, I stole an expensive program though I won't mention the name
But really, an $1000 photo editing program..
Rip-off. COMPLETELY not worth it. They could sell it for $50 and make a profit - which I would have bought it for..

Actually, not so.

Programming is really hard. It takes a lot of time and patience. My old roommate worked for Apple and he worked day and night on his projects. And he was only designing one feature (he was working on a picture display thing for Macs, and he handled the thing that makes the pictures rotate *shrug*). He makes $26 an hour doing this. But he was on a team of at least ten. If they all get paid $26 and hour, that's already $260 gone for one hour of work. And it took them at least three months. They create it, test it, debug it, test it, debug it, test it, put it up for production. Then make patches and fixes, test those fixes, debug those fixes, and so on and so on.

So no, there's no way they'd be able to make a profit at $50 each.

 

[leahrachelle]

Ok basically, (since I'm probably confusing people)
I think it COULD be okay to steal when the person has "stolen" in the first place
People who have scammed, complete rip-offs, etc.
And basically I just go with what feels right..
I don't regret stealing the program because they rip people off and I love my website. I don't regret the arcade because they stole half my money with their stupid broken machines and the lazy, annoying people don't want to give the money back.
Good people and good, genuine entrepenuers do not ever deserve to be stolen from, though, unless the rare case that the person has a lack of a necessity and cannot pay for it.

 

[leahrachelle]

Actually, not so.

Programming is really hard. It takes a lot of time and patience. My old roommate worked for Apple and he worked day and night on his projects. And he was only designing one feature (he was working on a picture display thing for Macs, and he handled the thing that makes the pictures rotate *shrug*). He makes $26 an hour doing this. But he was on a team of at least ten. If they all get paid $26 and hour, that's already $260 gone for one hour of work. And it took them at least three months. They create it, test it, debug it, test it, debug it, test it, put it up for production. Then make patches and fixes, test those fixes, debug those fixes, and so on and so on.

So no, there's no way they'd be able to make a profit at $50 each.

I understand what you're saying, but where I got that from was that there are programs extremely similiar to it that go for $50 dollars. They just couldn't do exactly what I needed is all - but close.

 

[Comicaze247]

Ok basically, (since I'm probably confusing people)
I think it COULD be okay to steal when the person has "stolen" in the first place
People who have scammed, complete rip-offs, etc.
And basically I just go with what feels right..
I don't regret stealing the program because they rip people off and I love my website. I don't regret the arcade because they stole half my money with their stupid broken machines and the lazy, annoying people don't want to give the money back.
Good people and good, genuine entrepenuers do not ever deserve to be stolen from, though, unless the rare case that the person has a lack of a necessity and cannot pay for it.

So, "it's never okay to steal . . . unless you really need to. Or unless the person you're stealing from deserves it." ??

 

[Comicaze247]

I understand what you're saying, but where I got that from was that there are programs extremely similiar to it that go for $50 dollars. They just couldn't do exactly what I needed is all - but close.

I don't know what program(s) you're talking about, so there's no way I can verify that. Hmm . . .

 

[leahrachelle]

So, "it's never okay to steal . . . unless you really need to. Or unless the person you're stealing from deserves it." ??

Technically. But I would simply say: You shouldn't steal from good people