Is it God's will when children are raped tortured, and murdered?

[RRex]

I prefer those listed by Ronald B.Tobias in his 20 Master Plots. Cincinnati: Writer’s Digest Books, 1993.

1 Quest
2 Adventure
3 Pursuit
4 Rescue
5 Escape
6 Revenge
7 The Riddle
8 Rivalry
9 Underdog
10 Temptation
11 Metamorphosis
12 Transformation
13 Maturation
14 Love
15 Forbidden Love
16 Sacrifice
17 Discovery
18 Wretched Excess
19 Ascension
20 Descension.​

They still break down further to the basic plots I listed.

 

[1robin]

Nothing torments my mind more than hearing about children being sexually assaulted , tortured, and killed. What I find also slightly mind -boggling is how many Christians say "God never wills that should happen to anyone. "

How can a person really make such an argument? If you have a daughter that you knew from her birth was going to be slain by a serial killer.... You knew who the serial killer was, where he lived, you could have found ways to get him arrested or killed, or you could have moved to another state, and instead you just let it play out, then you clearly willed your daughter to be the prey of a serial killer.

If it was God's will that his own son (Jesus) be tortured, humiliated, and executed, it would be a bit of a stretch to assume he doesn't will such things to happen to his other children as well (just look at the fate of the early Christians ).

So, your prayer for your son or daughter may be that they become a missionary, have a big happy family, do well in school, stay safe and healthy etc. , but God may will they get murdered in high school.

If you let a terrorist into your house , knowing with 100% certainty that He will blow it up ( long in advance you knew where he stored his weapons and could have got him arrested) it is because it was your will he would blow up your house.

If God didn't want people to be tortured and murdered, then it wouldn't be happening every day, would not have happened to the prophets, the Apostles, the early Christians, or so many Christians today.

Paul, Jesus, and so many Christians counted it an honor to suffer and die for their Righteousness.
2 Corinthians 12:10
That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Any thoughts?

Once again, If I am a Father, and someone is going to kill my child, and I know it will happen in advance, and I could arrange circumstances so that my child can escape , or restrain the man (Or get police to restrain him) and instead I let the person kill my child, it is because I willed it.

The people who crucified Christ were only fulfilling the method by which God wanted his son to be glorified. Scripture makes that clear.

John 12:23 ►
Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified (Crucified)...

But please... If you think im wrong about this, do share...thanks

Your question is based on a misunderstanding in my opinion.

1. It is God's will that human beings have the gift of freewill. However he could not grant true freewill if he must cancel out that freewill every time that someone is rebelled by the free exercise of that freewill. If any decision is short circuited then every sin has an instant death sentence enacted by God no matter how trivial.

2. It is not God's will that we abuse that gift, however he cannot simultaneously grant and cancel out freewill.

The abuse of the innocent through physical acts like sexual torment or the industrial killing of human life in the womb is going to occur regardless of God's express desire. The wonderful thing about Christianity is that God offers those children eternal justice.

Your question is just a specific flavor of the generalized so called "problem of evil". IOW God's attributes are contrary with the nature of moral evil. You must remember that the argument has two parts. A philosophical "problem" and an emotional distaste when it comes to any form of evil or pain, etc.... We must be careful to keep them separate. The philosophical argument to contradiction has been rejected and abandoned by even most secular philosophers and resolved as there being no contradiction between a morally perfect God and human suffering, but there exists no salve that can make us like suffering and evil. Regardless as every adult leans we must separate our emotions from our assessment of rational arguments.

I hope this helps because what you state is a problem to virtually every human who has ever lived but it looses it's teeth when examined from a philosophical thought.

 

[Skwim]

They still break down further to the basic plots I listed.

Or yours to:

1 Man in opposition


.​

 

[Etritonakin]

Corporeal resurrection is absurd. We blew $12 grand on a funeral for my brother, who believed such things when we should have cremated him in a cardboard box for 2k sans embalming.

Wasting mortal funds in hopes of immortal rewards is insane. We should live within our means and in the here and now.

The promise of immortality is most accurately addressed in the famous phrase "there's a sucker born every minute".

I don't waste my time on the "what ifs". I'm too busy trying to cope with the present reality vs. the fairy tale.

I don't see that immortality would require special preparation of our earthly bodies on our part. Blame that on human tradition and the industry.
Toast me -or bury me -roll me off into a ditch -whatever -and have a party with my own funeral money as far as I am concerned.

I think everything that happened to cause us to be living the first time was the difficult part -living again is just a rearrangement of materials -as long as there is a blueprint or such recorded.

 

[jeager106]

You may be right, but I have a hard time telling the difference between these two entities. If they aren't one and the same then why doesn't God stop the suffering?

Perhaps reading the Bible or at least doing some google work would shed light
on that.
There are reasons for what you asked but I won't go to the trouble of
pasting site when all you need do is google yourself.

 

[jeager106]

It would not be Satan's will. If god is all powerful wouldn't god stop those from harming other people? Think about it. He lets it happen because he does not care.

Well that ^^^^ was merely an biased opinion what all opinions are worth.
Like anal orifices all people have one.
A few a more willing to expose that than others.
Your screen name explains your lack of knowledge about the Christian God and
explains everything about who and what you are.

a female priest of a non-Christian religion

 

[Spiderman]

Your question is based on a misunderstanding in my opinion.

1. It is God's will that human beings have the gift of freewill. However he could not grant true freewill if he must cancel out that freewill every time that someone is rebelled by the free exercise of that freewill. If any decision is short circuited then every sin has an instant death sentence enacted by God no matter how trivial.

2. It is not God's will that we abuse that gift, however he cannot simultaneously grant and cancel out freewill.

The abuse of the innocent through physical acts like sexual torment or the industrial killing of human life in the womb is going to occur regardless of God's express desire. The wonderful thing about Christianity is that God offers those children eternal justice.

Your question is just a specific flavor of the generalized so called "problem of evil". IOW God's attributes are contrary with the nature of moral evil. You must remember that the argument has two parts. A philosophical "problem" and an emotional distaste when it comes to any form of evil or pain, etc.... We must be careful to keep them separate. The philosophical argument to contradiction has been rejected and abandoned by even most secular philosophers and resolved as there being no contradiction between a morally perfect God and human suffering, but there exists no salve that can make us like suffering and evil. Regardless as every adult leans we must separate our emotions from our assessment of rational arguments.

I hope this helps because what you state is a problem to virtually every human who has ever lived but it looses it's teeth when examined from a philosophical thought.

I've never asked or expected God to take away free will.... If you know a serial killer is going to kill your daughter years in advance and you don't inform her of the danger, inform the police, encounter the killer, or move so that you aren't around him, it's because you want your daughter to get killed by him.

Also, some people who are tempted to harm people pray often to God that they would no longer be that way and be as healthy as the average person that isn't a sadistic pervert.

God refuses to heal them. he could , without violating their free -will, give them a healthy mind... A person isnt usually ( if ever) a sociopath by choice... Either they have the ability to feel empathy and compassion or not.

If a person is a sociopath, God is also responsible for their disorder, to the extent that he can remedy and heal the person but refuses to.

Now, some people don't want to change, so it is understandable why God doesn't heal them, but I have known many people, including myself, who wanted to be healed of sinful inclinations, and God without cease refused to provide the healing . therefore, his refusal to give a person healthy sexuality, psychology, emotions, and empathy , is absolutely partially responsible for the person's behavior.

You totally missed what I was saying.... I was never saying God should control people's actions so that they can't harm others (or create robots. Nothing im suggesting God do even SLIGHTLY violates free will )

 

[RRex]

Perhaps reading the Bible or at least doing some google work would shed light
on that.
There are reasons for what you asked but I won't go to the trouble of
pasting site when all you need do is google yourself.

I don't view the probable answers as worth my effort. They're all man-made and, therefore, not true answers to the questions I have.

 

[jeager106]

I don't view the probable answers as worth my effort. They're all man-made and, therefore, not true answers to the questions I have.

Hummmmmmmmmm??????????????
Would any "man made" answer suffice?
What do you consider an answer not man made?
Perhaps you'd prefer an answer from ancient aliens?
Are you waiting for a revelation from some spiritual being?
Your avatar description suggests you are one who dislikes humankind and avoids human society.
Fact?

misanthropic:
mis·an·throp·ic1
/ˌmis(ə)nˈTHräpik/ antisocial, unsociable, unfriendly, reclusive, uncongenial

Sorry to know that is how you view your "self".

 

[RRex]

Hummmmmmmmmm??????????????
Would any "man made" answer suffice?
What do you consider an answer not man made?
Perhaps you'd prefer an answer from ancient aliens?
Are you waiting for a revelation from some spiritual being?

Be as condescending as you like. The fact is that no one can prove that anything written is a product of any god.

 

[jeager106]

Be as condescending as you like. The fact is that no one can prove that anything written is a product of any god.

A reminder for you.
Faith: a belief in something that cannot be proven nor disproved.

You say I am condescending, having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.

I'm sorry you interpret what I say in electrons on a screen as something about
my state of mind or my personality.

 

[RedStorm]

This is a "yes". No is an impossible answer

The reason is that if god doesn't will this, than he defies the "logic" he has given us and that in itself is malevolent.

 

[1robin]

I've never asked or expected God to take away free will.... If you know a serial killer is going to kill your daughter years in advance and you don't inform her of the danger, inform the police, encounter the killer, or move so that you aren't around him, it's because you want your daughter to get killed by him.

Pretty much all of those require God to short circuit our freewill either through direct action or by coercion. Regardless if he told us about eternal things and at least 2 out of us tell him to take a hike, and even many of his own people denied Christ's miracles and message despite their being clearly shown, there is little hope that we would follow his temporal warnings. Do you expect God to directly intervene in every incident that anyone might consider undesirable and make everything ok? That is the only thing that would be consist with the type of problem you illustrate.

Also, some people who are tempted to harm people pray often to God that they would no longer be that way and be as healthy as the average person that isn't a sadistic pervert.

I concur with what you say here though I do not understand why you posted it. It does not have any impact on the core claim I addressed.

God refuses to heal them. he could , without violating their free -will, give them a healthy mind... A person isnt usually ( if ever) a sociopath by choice... Either they have the ability to feel empathy and compassion or not.

There are countless people, myself included which God has taken away the desire to perform a specific sinful action. You need to identify the reason why one person is healed and another not. I would suspect the barrier lies with the person not God. For example I used to either demand heal me the way I want or I would give in to a specific desire. I believe he considered that type of request disingenuous and he refused to grant it until I was desperate enough to drop my conditions.

If a person is a sociopath, God is also responsible for their disorder, to the extent that he can remedy and heal the person but refuses to.

God does not cause moral bankruptcy and you would need to know every single persons heart to start to make these claims to begin with. I debate from scripture and my personal experience and try to not base anything I say on my perfect knowledge of another's heart.

Now, some people don't want to change, so it is understandable why God doesn't heal them, but I have known many people, including myself, who wanted to be healed of sinful inclinations, and God without cease refused to provide the healing . therefore, his refusal to give a person healthy sexuality, psychology, emotions, and empathy , is absolutely partially responsible for the person's behavior.

Well let me ask you first off what makes you think your a Christian or deserving of deliverance? Yes this is a test, but a very simplistic one. I have been delivered from at least 4 habitual sins so I cannot at this time judge your experience until you clue me in much more than you have.

BTW you can argue the "problem of evil" without claiming to know another's heart or even your own. Why don't you argue from common ground instead of special knowledge I do not share with you?

You totally missed what I was saying.... I was never saying God should control people's actions so that they can't harm others (or create robots. Nothing im suggesting God do even SLIGHTLY violates free will )

I was not saying that precisely. What I said was you were only making a tiny specific claim about an entire category of argumentation but that if you carry your specific argument to it's logical conclusion instead of splintering it off you would see that to counter arguments of the kind you make God would have to fly down and coerce us all to avoid these type of apparent (but not actual) problems. It took me many years before I saw the light of what professional theological philosophers said about the problem of evil and it's two halves. Sounds to me that your just not there yet and are mixing philosophy with your emotions which is understandable if not actually the facts of the matter.

 

[Spiderman]

John the Baptist, Elijah, Elisha, and many prophets were misanthropic btw

 

[Spiderman]

Pretty much all of those require God to short circuit our freewill either through direct action or by coercion. Regardless if he told us about eternal things and at least 2 out of us tell him to take a hike, and even many of his own people denied Christ's miracles and message despite their being clearly shown, there is little hope that we would follow his temporal warnings. Do you expect God to directly intervene in every incident that anyone might consider undesirable and make everything ok? That is the only thing that would be consist with the type of problem you illustrate.

I concur with what you say here though I do not understand why you posted it. It does not have any impact on the core claim I addressed.

There are countless people, myself included which God has taken away the desire to perform a specific sinful action. You need to identify the reason why one person is healed and another not. I would suspect the barrier lies with the person not God. For example I used to either demand heal me the way I want or I would give in to a specific desire. I believe he considered that type of request disingenuous and he refused to grant it until I was desperate enough to drop my conditions.

God does not cause moral bankruptcy and you would need to know every single persons heart to start to make these claims to begin with. I debate from scripture and my personal experience and try to not base anything I say on my perfect knowledge of another's heart.

Well let me ask you first off what makes you think your a Christian or deserving of deliverance? Yes this is a test, but a very simplistic one. I have been delivered from at least 4 habitual sins so I cannot at this time judge your experience until you clue me in much more than you have.

BTW you can argue the "problem of evil" without claiming to know another's heart or even your own. Why don't you argue from common ground instead of special knowledge I do not share with you?

I was not saying that precisely. What I said was you were only making a tiny specific claim about an entire category of argumentation but that if you carry your specific argument to it's logical conclusion instead of splintering it off you would see that to counter arguments of the kind you make God would have to fly down and coerce us all to avoid these type of apparent (but not actual) problems. It took me many years before I saw the light of what professional theological philosophers said about the problem of evil and it's two halves. Sounds to me that your just not there yet and are mixing philosophy with your emotions which is understandable if not actually the facts of the matter.

You totally missed what I said... Enlightening your child with instincts to not get in the car with that murderer or telling someone to get up and flee as did god tell Joseph and Mary is no violation of free will whatsoever...

Also, I invoke the blood of Jesus, believe that he died for my sins, Rose from the dead, make all my prayers and blessings in his name, desire to do only his will and nothing but his will, desire wisdom, understanding, and strength to carry out his will above all things, and precisely the understanding that you see me having from these threads is the understanding that Christ has given me.

If he wanted me to see things differently, then I would, for I sincerely begged him with all my heart for understanding (especially the understanding needed to serve and obey him ).

If im confused, it is because he wants me confused... Pure and simple... Or perhaps.... I'm figuring out the obvious... Before he formed some of his children in the womb, he knew in advance they would be victimized and (like with his son Jesus ) wanted it to happen!

 

[FearGod]

Nothing torments my mind more than hearing about children being sexually assaulted , tortured, and killed. What I find also slightly mind -boggling is how many Christians say "God never wills that should happen to anyone. "

How can a person really make such an argument? If you have a daughter that you knew from her birth was going to be slain by a serial killer.... You knew who the serial killer was, where he lived, you could have found ways to get him arrested or killed, or you could have moved to another state, and instead you just let it play out, then you clearly willed your daughter to be the prey of a serial killer.

If it was God's will that his own son (Jesus) be tortured, humiliated, and executed, it would be a bit of a stretch to assume he doesn't will such things to happen to his other children as well (just look at the fate of the early Christians ).

So, your prayer for your son or daughter may be that they become a missionary, have a big happy family, do well in school, stay safe and healthy etc. , but God may will they get murdered in high school.

If you let a terrorist into your house , knowing with 100% certainty that He will blow it up ( long in advance you knew where he stored his weapons and could have got him arrested) it is because it was your will he would blow up your house.

If God didn't want people to be tortured and murdered, then it wouldn't be happening every day, would not have happened to the prophets, the Apostles, the early Christians, or so many Christians today.

Paul, Jesus, and so many Christians counted it an honor to suffer and die for their Righteousness.
2 Corinthians 12:10
That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Any thoughts?

Once again, If I am a Father, and someone is going to kill my child, and I know it will happen in advance, and I could arrange circumstances so that my child can escape , or restrain the man (Or get police to restrain him) and instead I let the person kill my child, it is because I willed it.

The people who crucified Christ were only fulfilling the method by which God wanted his son to be glorified. Scripture makes that clear.

John 12:23 ►
Jesus replied, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified (Crucified)...

But please... If you think im wrong about this, do share...thanks

I believe that we have to stop the evil by ourselves , from the day that Adam and Eve chose not to
listen to God, then we are left and will be till the promise of the last day.

 

[RedStorm]

Evil does not come from the gods, it's just a byproduct of our current moral field. Morals, good and evil are not universal

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

If God is omnipotent, that is.

Christians do claim to say that god is the "almighty".

 

[Spiderman]

I believe that we have to stop the evil by ourselves , from the day that Adam and Eve chose not to
listen to God, then we are left and will be tell the promise of the last day.

Does God have knowledge of all things, control of all things including the Devil?

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

I believe that we have to stop the evil by ourselves , from the day that Adam and Eve chose not to
listen to God, then we are left and will be tell the promise of the last day.

Lucifer(Adam) wanted to teach others about who god really was. Lilith(Eve) listened to Lucifer and then god cast it them both of them out and made them disembodied spirits because god did not want others to hear the truth about him. http://www.liberatedoflucifer.org/wicca-lucifer-universe.html