Is it ok to mock beliefs?

[HerDotness]

I can see why...all those are so very unreasonable. < sigh >

 

[Kathryn]

I can see why...all those are so very unreasonable. < sigh >

Yes, some of them are quite.

 

[waitasec]

i think if someone mocks someone it speaks volumes about the mocker...
it's just rude.

i also think if someone mocks an idea, then the same conclusion about the mocker doesn't necessarily have to be the same.
now if someone was mocking why someone else holds certain ideals for no apparent reason other than, it's just what i was raised to believe in, then i think the mocker is actually demonstrating a form of respect.

 

[gnomon]

Then I'm a world class jerk.

The TEXTSFROMDRONES feed that was going for a while outright mocked Obama, foreign policy and the TEXTSFROMHILLARY nonsense. I thought it was great. Served up a great point about all three as well.

For example.

 

[Road Warrior]

Mockery, to me, goes further than sarcasm or a prickly comment. It involves derision, and often a blatant attempt to dehumanize and degrade a person publicly. It's more akin to contempt than it is to sarcasm.

Agreed. As in the link Student of X posted, Phil Plait explains very well why such comments are negative and ill-suited for the goal of persuasion.

And then there is this one.

[youtube]dmP9XozKEV0[/youtube]
Phil Plait, "Don't Be a Dick" (Part 1 of 3) - YouTube

This was excellent. Thanks for sharing. I also ended up listening to Neil DeGrasse Tyson's 88 minute speech at the Amazing Meeting 6. He talks about some of the same points (among other things)

[youtube]8vfOpZD4Sm8[/youtube]
Dr Neil DeGrasse Tyson - The Amazing Meeting 6 - YouTube

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Agreed. As in the link Student of X posted, Phil Plait explains very well why such comments are negative and ill-suited for the goal of persuasion.

Ah... Plait's "Don't Be A Dick" speech.

So you agree with Phil Plait that when you disagree with someone else's approach or position, it's appropriate to call them names (e.g. "dick")?

 

[Skeptisch]

Is there any mocking happening here?

[youtube]-_2xGIwQfik[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2xGIwQfik

 

[HerDotness]

Here goes another thread toward exceeding 1000 postings...

I swear, people, Dawkins AGREES with Tyson that calm, reasoned discourse is the best way to persuade people. Anyone who's watched speeches of Dawkins's and debates he's participated in knows that calm rationality is his standard procedure.

But no...he makes ONE flip half-joking remark quoting someone else in this short video that is carefully cropped to make Tyson seem like some kind of hero, and people are talking about Dawkins as if the man's standard approach competes with Rush Limbaugh's for bash, slash and crude.

FAIRNESS means nothing to those of you lambasting him, does it?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

While I agree Dawkins is a great deal more amiable in his discourse and presentation than a Hitchkins, he is however far from a Jillette....

 

[MysticSang'ha]

While I agree Dawkins is a great deal more amiable in his discourse and presentation than a Hitchkins, he is however far from a Jillette....

I LOVE their "Bull ****" Showtime series!

 

[ChristineES]

Here goes another thread toward exceeding 1000 postings...

I swear, people, Dawkins AGREES with Tyson that calm, reasoned discourse is the best way to persuade people. Anyone who's watched speeches of Dawkins's and debates he's participated in knows that calm rationality is his standard procedure.

But no...he makes ONE flip half-joking remark quoting someone else in this short video that is carefully cropped to make Tyson seem like some kind of hero, and people are talking about Dawkins as if the man's standard approach competes with Rush Limbaugh's for bash, slash and crude.

FAIRNESS means nothing to those of you lambasting him, does it?

This thread wasn't about Dawkins, but about whether it was right or wrong to mock beliefs. People just tossed him in there.

 

[Road Warrior]

This thread wasn't about Dawkins, but about whether it was right or wrong to mock beliefs. People just tossed him in there.

For obvious reasons: Transcript of Richard Dawkins&#8217; speech from Reason Rally 2012 | ladydifadden

So when I meet somebody who claims to be religious, my first impulse is: &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe you. I don&#8217;t believe you until you tell me do you really believe &#8212; for example, if they say they are Catholic &#8212; do you really believe that when a priest blesses a wafer it turns into the body of Christ? Are you seriously telling me you believe that? Are you seriously saying that wine turns into blood?&#8221; Mock them! Ridicule them! In public!

As Phil Plait advised several times in his speech at the TAM8 Conference (July 2010), it is better to rely on the merits of the arguments rather than "vitriol and venom".

Phil Plait, "Don't Be a Dick" (Part 1 of 3) - YouTube

IMHO, this advice applies to everything we do as a society. Unfortunately, at least in American culture, there is an all-too-common feeling that "he who yells loudest, wins". As Mr. Plait pointed out in his speech, this attitude is wrong.

 

[ChristineES]

For obvious reasons: Transcript of Richard Dawkins’ speech from Reason Rally 2012 | ladydifadden

I'm confused, I thought that was a different thread than this one.

 

[Road Warrior]

I'm confused, I thought that was a different thread than this one.

There is. A question was asked about why Dawkins was brought up in a thread asking is it okay to mock beliefs.

Since Dawkins is a highly respected member of the New Atheist movement and since he advised his followers to mock and ridicule religious believers, then it is appropriate to mention his recent speech.

If the subject was about shooting unarmed teenagers, would you say it is inappropriate to bring up Martin and Zimmerman just because there is another thread on it? The subjects are related. If it concerns you so much, then I suggest we merge the threads rather than try to ban people from mentioning Dawkins, Hitchens, PZ Myers or anyone else who thinks mocking believers is a good thing.

 

[HerDotness]

Since Dawkins is a highly respected member of the New Atheist movement and since he advised his followers to mock and ridicule religious believers, then it is appropriate to mention his recent speech.

And it would be very pleasant indeed, RW, if you would STOP misrepresenting what he said. He DID. NOT. SAY. his followers should mock and revile religious believers. The beliefs, yes, the people, decidedly not.

Just stop spreading this about what the man said. It's deplorable that you keep repeating it.

 

[Road Warrior]

You forgot to add "in my opinion" Dot.

 

[ChristineES]

And it would be very pleasant indeed, RW, if you would STOP misrepresenting what he said. He DID. NOT. SAY. his followers should mock and revile religious believers. The beliefs, yes, the people, decidedly not.

Just stop spreading this about what the man said. It's deplorable that you keep repeating it.

But doesn't he have a right to his opinion? I know you strongly disagree with it, but others don't see it the same way. We have to accept that people aren't going to see things the same way as we do.

 

[Desert Snake]

And it would be very pleasant indeed, RW, if you would STOP misrepresenting what he said. He DID. NOT. SAY. his followers should mock and revile religious believers. The beliefs, yes, the people, decidedly not.

Just stop spreading this about what the man said. It's deplorable that you keep repeating it.

I agree, that was my understanding of it also. I'm not saying I agree with that, but I think people are misrepresenting that speech a bit, from what I've read. Now, on the other hand, I'm not familiar with his writings so I don't know how he usually presents these ideas etc.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

But doesn't he have a right to his opinion? I know you strongly disagree with it, but others don't see it the same way. We have to accept that people aren't going to see things the same way as we do.

I can see that. Sure.

Are you hunky dory with people who think Christianity teaches hate? Are you okay with people you feel misrepresent your religion?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I agree, that was my understanding of it also. I'm not saying I agree with that, but I think people are misrepresenting that speech a bit, from what I've read. Now, on the other hand, I'm not familiar with his writings so I don't know how he usually presents these ideas etc.

I think there is a lot of emotional knee-jerk reactions from the word "mock" which as has been shown to mean different things to different people.