Is it possible for us to create a purpose?

[Reflex]

Is it possible for us to create a purpose? Sure. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao all created their own purpose. But how well does a self-created purpose conform to the reality of wholeness? The idea of a genuine purpose is like the idea of good: it presupposes an absolute against which it can be measured.

Of course, an atheist is likely to deny this as it flies in the face of their ideology, but that doesn't invalidate the logic.

 

[Reflex]

I used to be a builder myself until I've been retired of it for the past ten years. It's an awesome experience to hang out with friends and share stories, which is what we'll be doing in Paradise. Each one of us will have a different story to tell after experiencing new things in every vision.

I can't imagine a more hellish and mind-numbing afterlife.

 

[McBell]

Is it possible for us to create a purpose? Sure. But how well does a self-created purpose conform to the reality of wholeness? Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao all created their own purpose. The idea of a genuine purpose is like the idea of good: it presupposes an absolute against which it can be measured.

Of course, an atheist is likely to deny this as it flies in the face of their ideology, but that doesn't invalidate the logic.

This nonsense keeps getting tossed out as though it is fact.
Yet not a single person has yet been able to support it with anything other than more bold empty claims.

Are you going to be the first to support it?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Is it possible for us to create a purpose? Sure. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao all created their own purpose.

Are you serious? You're honestly going to stoop to that incredibly low level? Please tell me you're engaged in some elaborate satire if you're going to make statements like that.

But how well does a self-created purpose conform to the reality of wholeness? The idea of a genuine purpose is like the idea of good: it presupposes an absolute against which it can be measured.

I would refute that, but an argument which has absolutely no logical basis to begin with doesn't need a logical refutation.

Of course, an atheist is likely to deny this as it flies in the face of their ideology, but that doesn't invalidate the logic.

What logic? Empty, baseless claims are not "logic". Logic requires a conclusion supported by reasoned argument and evidence.

 

[Reflex]

Wow. I sure called that one!

Sure, we can make our purpose without reference to an ultimate reality, but what makes such a purpose anything but arbitrary?

 

[ArtieE]

Is it possible for us to create a purpose? Sure. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao all created their own purpose.

If you want to find out their purpose you would have to ask the Christian God allegedly He was the one who appointed them in the first place.

"Romans 13:1 New Living Translation
Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God."

 

[Gambit]

If you want to find out their purpose you would have to ask the Christian God allegedly He was the one who appointed them in the first place.

Everyone is seeking the good as he or she sees it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The idea of a genuine purpose is like the idea of good: it presupposes an absolute against which it can be measured.

My "genuine" purposes include things that some would not consider good. Such as two on going book projects; one being a collection of pro-Satan and anti-Christ prose, poetry, and short stories; another project that I'm adding to, both art and prose, while only under a certain states of mind. Sometimes my purpose is to challenge religion by using observations from that religion, pointing out things that are approved by that religion, and asking questions about the wholes in that religion. And the dark themes that are frequent in my works are considered by many to be not good.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Everyone is seeking the good as he or she sees it.

Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, many such people sought what they thought was good, and obviously it wasn't. It was thought invading Iraq was good, and it created a nightmare. It was thought our chemical additives in agriculture would be good, but it's doing nothing more than poisoning us. We think many medications are good, but they end up in lawsuits for being bad a few months later.

 

[Reflex]

No takers, eh? No one is going to explain why making our own purpose without reference to an ultimate reality isn't anything but arbitrary? I didn't think so.

 

[thevoiceofgod]

I can't imagine a more hellish and mind-numbing afterlife.

I can't imagine a more hellish and mind-numbing afterlife.

I no you can't. It takes a wonderful imagination to understand what life will be like in our next bodies.

 

[Straw Dog]

Question: Is it possible for us to create a purpose without acting on some higher purpose (which we ourselves did not create)?

Purpose is not something that we create, but rather something that unfolds naturally according to the shifting situations of being alive and relatively human. Many philosophers and religious folk treat it as something very abstract and divine whenever it is actually something very raw and messy.

 

[Gambit]

Purpose is not something that we create, but rather something that unfolds naturally according to the shifting situations of being alive and relatively human. Many philosophers and religious folk treat it as something very abstract and divine whenever it is actually something very raw and messy.

How exactly does it unfold?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

No takers, eh? No one is going to explain why making our own purpose without reference to an ultimate reality isn't anything but arbitrary? I didn't think so.

It's a false dichotomy. No different than the insistence that authoritarian/totalitarian 'ultimate authority' is the only non-arbitrary source of moral judgement. Nobody will argue it because it's a non sequitur from the get go. I don't recognize your God or any God as 'ultimate reality' any more than I recognize it as 'ultimate authority.' So whatever instruction given by said being would be no less arbitrary than anything else. Meanwhile my purpose which contains reasonable goals, achievements, contacts etc was chosen by me because of my personality, strengths and desires. None of those are arbitrary even if you as an outsider to myself thinks they are.

 

[ArtieE]

How exactly does it unfold?

The organisms that are here on the planet today are a result of evolution evolving different instincts such as the survival instinct and the instinct to reproduce. I'm not here for a specific purpose, I'm here because my parents had an instinct to reproduce and I have a survival instinct so I'm doing my best to do so which in our society involves getting a good education and job and generally behaving in a way that is beneficial to all.

 

[thevoiceofgod]

The organisms that are here on the planet today are a result of evolution evolving different instincts such as the survival instinct and the instinct to reproduce. I'm not here for a specific purpose, I'm here because my parents had an instinct to reproduce and I have a survival instinct so I'm doing my best to do so which in our society involves getting a good education and job and generally behaving in a way that is beneficial to all.

You're one of the lucky ones. Unfortunately, most people don't have it so nice according to God's will.

 

[outhouse]

The organisms that are here on the planet today are a result of evolution evolving different instincts such as the survival instinct and the instinct to reproduce. I'm not here for a specific purpose, I'm here because my parents had an instinct to reproduce and I have a survival instinct so I'm doing my best to do so which in our society involves getting a good education and job and generally behaving in a way that is beneficial to all.

That is the best answer in this so called thread.

Its been full of rhetoric until your reply.

 

[thevoiceofgod]

That is the best answer in this so called thread.

Its been full of rhetoric until your reply.

It's the best answer because of your beliefs. It is the wrong answer according to our Creator's knowledge.

 

[Reflex]

It is really amusing to see atheists here trying to avoid their dilemma. Artie is not here for a specific purpose and neither were Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao. Each made a specific purpose for themselves that contain what they imagined to be reasonable goals chosen by them because of their personality, strengths and desires--just like Digital.

Mestemia and ImmortalFlame just accused me of being nonsensical without bothering to answer the question.

Straw Dog says purpose is "something that unfolds naturally according to the shifting situations." Does that mean the purposes of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao were natural phenomena? Should we explore the entailments of that?

Like it or not, there is a direct link between purpose and values.

 

[outhouse]

It is really amusing to see atheists here trying to avoid their dilemma

The only dilemma is some theist who are so desperate to substantiate their faith in the light of their beliefs mythological origins, they cant stand to see others using reason and logic.

Mestemia and ImmortalFlame just accused me of being nonsensical

I doubt these are the only two.

Hitler

Raised a theist and died a theist.

Stalin,

Raised a theist who influenced his decisions.

and did terrible things for political power, not atheism

Mao

Political power