Is it possible for you to do anything that God did not already know you would do?

[logician]

"he's god, he can do anything,"

Which means he knows all future actions, again, leading to a logical paradox.

 

[rageoftyrael]

explain your reasoning please. I don't see a paradox just because he knows his own future as well. Heck, that might be one of the few differences between him and us, assuming he does exist. Basically, i don't see the paradox, not just by knowing everything.

 

[JMorris]

if god knows the future, and cant be wrong, then not only do WE not have free will, but GOD has no free will. unless he can choose to be wrong....... would god choose the future? or does he simply know it? is the future set in stone without his ability to change it? did he choose to create satan knowing what satan would do? or did it have to happen because he knew it would happen? i think most people (specially enoch) dont even want to consider this because its depressing, and makes life rather pointless. but the fact is, if someone knows the future, and he cant be wrong then the future isnt craftable. out any given time can you choose option B if its known by god you will choose option A. if god knows HE will choose option A in the future, can god choose option B when the time comes to choose?

 

[rageoftyrael]

you are merely explaining a situation, there is no paradox there. And that is what i'm asking logician to prove. Not how depressing the possibility is, but if it is actually a paradox, which in and of itself, it isn't. It just shows that god might have limitations.

 

[JMorris]

you are merely explaining a situation, there is no paradox there. And that is what i'm asking logician to prove. Not how depressing the possibility is, but if it is actually a paradox, which in and of itself, it isn't. It just shows that god might have limitations.

how is that not a paradox? we're talking about the relationship omniscience has with free will. can you explain to me how a god that is omniscient can give free will? or if said god can have free will himself?

 

[rageoftyrael]

logician's answer to the question, is it possible for you to do anything without god knowing was that it was a paradox. He said nothing about free will. And since free will is only an assumption, i don't feel it can be used to create a paradox. It is simple, if god is omniscient, that in and of itself does not create a paradox. Only if you start adding variables like free will does any problem arise. He stated no variables, and only answered the primary question, thus his logic that this is a paradox is unfounded.

 

[JMorris]

logician's answer to the question, is it possible for you to do anything without god knowing was that it was a paradox. He said nothing about free will. And since free will is only an assumption, i don't feel it can be used to create a paradox. It is simple, if god is omniscient, that in and of itself does not create a paradox. Only if you start adding variables like free will does any problem arise. He stated no variables, and only answered the primary question, thus his logic that this is a paradox is unfounded.

ok i misunderstood. simply being omniscient isnt a paradox. adding free will to the equation does make it a paradox tho.....

 

[rageoftyrael]

yeah, i wasn't trying to attack you or anything, i was just showing you what i was refuting. By the way, i agree completely that there is no free will if fate exists, so we are basically in agreement there.

 

[JMorris]

yeah, i wasn't trying to attack you or anything, i was just showing you what i was refuting. By the way, i agree completely that there is no free will if fate exists, so we are basically in agreement there.

lol, i didnt take it as an attack.

 

[S-word]

Uhhh.........so....so is that a "yes" or a "no"?

If you can't understand what was said in my post, then no answer to your question "Yes of No" will make my point any clearer to you.

But here goes; I am convinced that it is possible, in a state of deep meditation or hypnosis, for the mind of a person to descend to the inner most sanctuary of their own being, and enter a dimension where space and time are one, and there to merge with a mind of a living ancestor of their past in who they once existed. There, the mind of the present would experience the life and times in which their ancestor lived, and from their present position in space and time, they would speak in strange tongues, the language of their ancestor with which they are totally unfamiliar. If you accept that such a thing is possible, then it stands to reason that you may receive a visitation from one of your descendants of the far distant future who, relevant to your concept of time, does not yet exist; Perhaps you may even receive a visitation from the Omega himself, who knows everything that you have done in his dead past.


Come travel with me on a journey through time, not in some capsule but in our minds
To our inner most sanctuary will we descend to that single cell from which our bodies began
In the Holy of Holies where all is one where all of Space and Time is joined
We'll mingle there with other minds from other lands in other times
Minds of the past who seem dead and gone and minds of the future who are yet unborn
For they in their time whether here on this world or some distant planet to which they've been lured
Will enter their inner most sanctuary too and there perhaps they'll merge with you.
Ah! To travel through time in the wink of an eye, merged with a mind from some world way up high
And if this is but madness then madness it be, but come my mad brethren, come, follow me. By...S-word.

 

[monta]

The christian god was wont to change his mind in the old testament
Also he was suprised by peoples actions or had to ask what they were doing
Also free will doesn't exactly lie cheek in jowl with predestination
Also he doesn't exist

 

[JMorris]

The christian god was wont to change his mind in the old testament
Also he was suprised by peoples actions or had to ask what they were doing
Also free will doesn't exactly lie cheek in jowl with predestination
Also he doesn't exist

not to be rude, but i literally have no idea what most of that is supposed to mean, except for the last line which is pretty obvious
but welcome to the forum

 

[Beaudreaux]

If you can't understand what was said in my post, then no answer to your question "Yes of No" will make my point any clearer to you.

But here goes; I am convinced that it is possible, in a state of deep meditation or hypnosis, for the mind of a person to descend to the inner most sanctuary of their own being, and enter a dimension where space and time are one, and there to merge with a mind of a living ancestor of their past in who they once existed. There, the mind of the present would experience the life and times in which their ancestor lived, and from their present position in space and time, they would speak in strange tongues, the language of their ancestor with which they are totally unfamiliar. If you accept that such a thing is possible, then it stands to reason that you may receive a visitation from one of your descendants of the far distant future who, relevant to your concept of time, does not yet exist; Perhaps you may even receive a visitation from the Omega himself, who knows everything that you have done in his dead past.


Come travel with me on a journey through time, not in some capsule but in our minds
To our inner most sanctuary will we descend to that single cell from which our bodies began
In the Holy of Holies where all is one where all of Space and Time is joined
We'll mingle there with other minds from other lands in other times
Minds of the past who seem dead and gone and minds of the future who are yet unborn
For they in their time whether here on this world or some distant planet to which they've been lured
Will enter their inner most sanctuary too and there perhaps they'll merge with you.
Ah! To travel through time in the wink of an eye, merged with a mind from some world way up high
And if this is but madness then madness it be, but come my mad brethren, come, follow me. By...S-word.

OH! Ok. Sorry about that. This clears things up nicely. I just have one follow up question:

• Do you believe it is possible to do something that God did not already know you would do?

I understand this is a complex subject, but the reason I created this thread was because people refused to answer the quesition in other threads. This question represents the entirety of what this thread is about. I am happy to read your explanations of why you answer one way or another, but let's put first things first. Please give a "yes" or a "no" and please explain why. Otherwise, I don't know why you'd even post in this thread.

 

[Enoch07]

OH! Ok. Sorry about that. This clears things up nicely. I just have one follow up question:

• Do you believe it is possible to do something that God did not already know you would do?

I understand this is a complex subject, but the reason I created this thread was because people refused to answer the quesition in other threads. This question represents the entirety of what this thread is about. I am happy to read your explanations of why you answer one way or another, but let's put first things first. Please give a "yes" or a "no" and please explain why. Otherwise, I don't know why you'd even post in this thread.

Your question is loaded though. You feel that if they answer no it proves God does not allow for free will. and yes means he is not omniscient. When Mister Emu already proved that God is omniscient and allows for free will, because he leaves wiggle room for free will.

 

[gzusfrk]

he knows the day you will die he knows everything, yet you have the free will to do what you want

 

[monta]

not to be rude, but i literally have no idea what most of that is supposed to mean, except for the last line which is pretty obvious
but welcome to the forum

Not rude at all and thanks for the welcome, I am sorry if I was too cryptic.
My point is that if god changes his mind than the answer to the op is no, a really tiny little example of this is Ezekiel 4:12-15 God tells Ezekiel to cook his bread over human excrement as part of a prophecy of the Hebrew exile. When Ezekiel protests that he has never been defiled, God allows him to use cow dung instead.

There are other occasions where he is suprised or unaware of peoples actions so again the answer to the op is no.

Free while can't exist along side a path of predestination and lastly I once again feel compelled to point out you can't know something if you aren't real

 

[RomCat]

God knows everything that ever took place and that ever
will take place. This in no way infringes upon your free will.
Knowing that something will happen does not cause that thing
to happen. God knows everthing about you even the choices
you will freely make.

 

[S-word]

OH! Ok. Sorry about that. This clears things up nicely. I just have one follow up question:

• Do you believe it is possible to do something that God did not already know you would do?

I understand this is a complex subject, but the reason I created this thread was because people refused to answer the quesition in other threads. This question represents the entirety of what this thread is about. I am happy to read your explanations of why you answer one way or another, but let's put first things first. Please give a "yes" or a "no" and please explain why. Otherwise, I don't know why you'd even post in this thread.

Thick, thick, thick as a brick.

 

[Draka]

I guess I must be thick too then, for I still haven't seen you answer the question yet either S-word. It is a simple question. It can be answered with a yes or no. I've seen some awful fine beating around the bush, but no direct answer. Appears to be a lot of that going on here actually.

 

[Enoch07]

Do you believe that God controls your every action?