Is it possible for you to do anything that God did not already know you would do?

[Comicaze247]

Do you believe that God controls your every action?

That's the thing. Some of us don't believe in your "God." We're just arguing the concepts. And I really don't think that "God" can have a plan and give us free will.
So he gives us "wiggle room." For the sake of argument, I'll concede that. What if that wiggle room runs out?
What if we change so drastically that we surpass the boundaries of his "wiggle room?"
Will he push us back in line, thereby undoing our free will?
Or will he just let us keep going, thereby ruining his "plan?"

 

[Katzpur]

That's the thing. Some of us don't believe in your "God." We're just arguing the concepts. And I really don't think that "God" can have a plan and give us free will.
So he gives us "wiggle room." For the sake of argument, I'll concede that. What if that wiggle room runs out?
What if we change so drastically that we surpass the boundaries of his "wiggle room?"
Will he push us back in line, thereby undoing our free will?
Or will he just let us keep going, thereby ruining his "plan?"

Comicaze, just what does the phrase "Free will" mean to you? I mean, how would you define it? If, in fact, you believed that free will existed, would that mean that you were free to do anything you chose and that there would be no consequences?

 

[S-word]

Comicaze, just what does the phrase "Free will" mean to you? I mean, how would you define it? If, in fact, you believed that free will existed, would that mean that you were free to do anything you chose and that there would be no consequences?

I don't know what the phrase "Free will" means to Comicaze, but let us imagine that he, in spirit, was able to descend into the past and visit the house in which one of his ancestors had died when he walked out of one of the two doors that led onto two differnt streets when he was hit and killed by a passing car. The ancestor knows that he has free will and has a choice, as to which door he can exit the house, Comacaze who is a far future descendant of that man, knows exactly which door he will choose, and knows that the decision that he had made can never be changed. And so, to the question, does the Son of Man who inherits the throne of Godhead and is able to descend into his dead past, know what you are going to do before you have done it, the answer is, an unequivocal YES.

 

[Willamena]

Comicaze, just what does the phrase "Free will" mean to you? I mean, how would you define it? If, in fact, you believed that free will existed, would that mean that you were free to do anything you chose and that there would be no consequences?

Illusion.

Illusions exist.

 

[Comicaze247]

Comicaze, just what does the phrase "Free will" mean to you? I mean, how would you define it? If, in fact, you believed that free will existed, would that mean that you were free to do anything you chose and that there would be no consequences?

Nice job avoiding answering the question Didn't expect anything less.

But anyway, what is with these questions on "what is free will?" It's simple. The inner ability to make your own choices despite outside influences.

 

[Comicaze247]

I don't know what the phrase "Free will" means to Comicaze, but let us imagine that he, in spirit, was able to descend into the past and visit the house in which one of his ancestors had died when he walked out of one of the two doors that led onto two differnt streets when he was hit and killed by a passing car. The ancestor knows that he has free will and has a choice, as to which door he can exit the house, Comacaze who is a far future descendant of that man, knows exactly which door he will choose, and knows that the decision that he had made can never be changed.

Well duh, it's the past. It can't be changed. What does that have to do with "fate?" And as a sidenote, the commonly accepted concept of time is an illusion. Past and future do not exist. All that really exists is the present.

And so, to the question, does the Son of Man who inherits the throne of Godhead and is able to descend into his dead past, know what you are going to do before you have done it, the answer is, an unequivocal YES.

I really don't see how this connects to the example above . . .

 

[Katzpur]

Nice job avoiding answering the question Didn't expect anything less.

Well, that's nice of you to say. I'm trying to enter into this conversation by asking a question on your perspective before I comment and what do I get in return? An insult. Okay. If that's how you want to interact with me, I will return the favor by not commenting further. I've got to admit that I'm kind of confused by your accusation, but maybe that's just how you typically behave.

 

[Comicaze247]

Well, that's nice of you to say. I'm trying to enter into this conversation by asking a question on your perspective before I comment and what do I get in return? An insult. Okay. If that's how you want to interact with me, I will return the favor by not commenting further. I've got to admit that I'm kind of confused by your accusation, but maybe that's just how you typically behave.

My apologies. I've just been dealing with that a lot in this thread. I just assumed you were continuing the thread.

 

[gzusfrk]

einstein was an idiot, HE knew I was going to say that

 

[meogi]

I hope I can formulate this on paper as well as it seems to float around in my head...

There is no paradox in the existence of an omniscient God and free will. To answer your question:

Is it possible for you to do anything that God did not already know you would do?

No. If God was omniscient, he would know everything, past, present, and future.

Does this negate free will? Free will is, in essence, decision between choices. Does knowledge of a specific decision have any influence on the person making the choice?

Yes: There is no free will. God is free will itself. At least he hid the controls pretty far back, giving us the illusion.

No: There is free will. You are the one making the decisions. God just knows what choices you made.

So, does knowledge of the future have any influence on the future-present decision? Does knowledge have influence? Can it?

 

[JMorris]

even if you dont believe in god, i think the existence of free will is debatable. i mean, i dont believe in god (of any kind) but im still not sure i have free will. i certainly think i do. but that might just be an illusion.

 

[Mister Emu]

Well duh, it's the past.

And if what we are consciously moving through is in actuality part of the past? Or part of an eternal present?

 

[JMorris]

do all points in time happen at the same time? do we just percieve the present as the present? what is deja-vue? confusing stuff.......to me anyway

 

[JMorris]

there seems to be a complete refusual on the part of the christians on this thread to recognize that free will cannot exist with omniscience. most of us who recognize this fact have proven this to the best of our ability with logic, examples, ect. but all the opposition seem to do is deny it, without giving the slightest bit of proof or logic to back up what they say. you simply keep saying "no, god has omniscience, and we all have free will" that is not an arguement, its just an empty denial. Enoch especially dosent even try to refute our position, or give any strength to his own, he just keeps denying, denying, denying. i dont know how much further this thread can go unless the christians start bringing something to the table. the rest of us dont have a "big book of wrong answers" to quote from, we actually have to think, and come up with a logical answer to questions. we may not always be right about everything, but atleast its our own work. if your just going to repeat the SAME LINE over and over then you've lost, because that SAME LINE makes NO SENSE in the REAL WORLD. so please come up with something new, perhaps even a thought of your own.

 

[JMorris]

And if what we are consciously moving through is in actuality part of the past? Or part of an eternal present?

i will exclude Mister Emu from my last post as he's actually bringing up something we can debate.

 

[Comicaze247]

And if what we are consciously moving through is in actuality part of the past? Or part of an eternal present?

Well, if you (not you specifically) believe that what we are moving through is the past, then we living in this moment of "time" don't have free will, as our choices have already been determined by our "present selves." That's if that's what you believe.

And I'm not quite sure what you mean by an "eternal present." Could you elaborate?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Your question is loaded though. You feel that if they answer no it proves God does not allow for free will. and yes means he is not omniscient. When Mister Emu already proved that God is omniscient and allows for free will, because he leaves wiggle room for free will.

The question is not loaded. "Have you stopped beating your wife" is the classic example of the loaded question because the standard yes or no answers both presuppose that you have beaten your wife in the past.

This question is a simple yes or no question about the possibility of something. It is not loaded at all.

 

[JMorris]

Well, if you (not you specifically) believe that what we are moving through is the past, then we living in this moment of "time" don't have free will, as our choices have already been determined by our "present selves." That's if that's what you believe.

And I'm not quite sure what you mean by an "eternal present." Could you elaborate?

that makes good sense. i guess the only way free will could exist (god or not) is if time is on a constant knifes edge, where nothing ahead of the present exists. and if the present means the linear movement of time.

 

[Beaudreaux]

he knows the day you will die he knows everything, yet you have the free will to do what you want

Are you free to do something God did not foreknow?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Thick, thick, thick as a brick.

More like a can of Pepsi, but I hardly see what that has to do with anything.