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Is it possible that Christianity is true, yet the Bible contains errors?

1213

Well-Known Member
He fell headlong. Do you propose that after the rope failed he managed to somersault so that he wasn't falling feet first?
I think it is possible he fell in such way that he hit the ground head first. For example it could be that he hanged himself on a hill, next to some kind of cliff, rope was cut and he rolled down the cliff. Other possibility is that headlong means in this case rashly.
The answer to this conundrum can be found in the relevant prophecy.

Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
Matthew 26:31

And [one] shall say unto him, What [are] these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, [Those] with which I was wounded [in] the house of my friends.
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:6-7

The "man" in this verse is from גבר (warrior), which relates to the Sicarri (assasins), i.e. Iscariot.
Interesting, I don't think that fits to Judas Iscariot in anyway, sorry.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Everywhere. The book of Genesis, the Exodus that never happened, keeping it seasonal the at least ten year difference between the birth of Jesus in Matthew and Luke. That is just the start.
All you have shown is your opinion, nothing substantial.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
I think it is possible he fell in such way that he hit the ground head first. For example it could be that he hanged himself on a hill, next to some kind of cliff, rope was cut and he rolled down the cliff. Other possibility is that headlong means in this case rashly.
If that was the case, then why both both authors leave out these pertinent details?

Falling rashly makes no sense if a rope breaks, since a hanged man wouldn't know if or when the rope would break. Hanged can also mean hanged from a tree, a phrase which Paul used to describe crucifixion.

Interesting, I don't think that fits to Judas Iscariot in anyway, sorry.
The point is that there's no reason to invent explanations for contradictions when the prophetic texts tell a different story to the accepted Christian narrative. The simplest explanation is the Islamic account is correct - Yeshua (Jesus) was not crucified but it appeared that he was.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
If that was the case, then why both both authors leave out these pertinent details?

Falling rashly makes no sense if a rope breaks, since a hanged man wouldn't know if or when the rope would break. Hanged can also mean hanged from a tree, a phrase which Paul used to describe crucifixion.


The point is that there's no reason to invent explanations for contradictions when the prophetic texts tell a different story to the accepted Christian narrative. The simplest explanation is the Islamic account is correct - Yeshua (Jesus) was not crucified but it appeared that he was.

That a fellow - who was not named Yeshua but Joshua ..in memory of the other great leader who conguored the Promised land for the Israelites - a wonder worker who taught great Wizdom and claimed to speak God's word existed .. is not changed by the fact that human stories about this fellow are not accurate.

The problem .. is that one must now parse out the real message of Christ from the false message .. put in there by Ha Satan the Tester .. to see if you can distinguish Dark from the light .. and what have you learned Eionite :)
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm sure this has been asked before. But not since I joined. I'm mainly concerned with Biblical authority and/or inerrancy. What's the verdict so far as you can tell?

Is Christianity true because the Bible says so?

Or does the Bible say so because it describes the truth of Christianity?
The Christian Bible is the most studied book over the last thousand years. In regards authority and inerrancy, it depends on whether one believes in the Bibles central claims. One who believes in Jesus will have very different views from one who doesn't.

Regardless, there are truths that most historians would agree. Jesus was an itinerant Jewish Preacher, who was baptized and crucified. That seems to me to be a useful starting point and in regards Christianity and the Bible, events that were probably true.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
All you have shown is your opinion, nothing substantial.
No,no, no. That is not true and you know it. It is based upon scientific evidence and you know it. And didn't you lose the debate about the date of Jesus birth and run away?


Science shows that the Bible is full of errors. You can't claim that the Bible is scientific and then run away from the sciences. That is just you admitting that you were wrong. History shows that the Bible is full of errors. You can't claim that the Bible is historically accurate and then run away from the history. That is just you running away again. Morality shows that the Bible is full of errors. Hmm, have you run away from a moral argument yet?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I'm sure this has been asked before. But not since I joined. I'm mainly concerned with Biblical authority and/or inerrancy. What's the verdict so far as you can tell?

Is Christianity true because the Bible says so?

Or does the Bible say so because it describes the truth of Christianity?
I believe Christianity is not an error.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Please show one error in the Bible?
Jesus died. The truth is that He appeared to die and the body died as John tells us. The reason the other witnesses were wrong is due to the fact that they were not as spiritually discerning as John.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I believe that it is possible that none of the versions of Christianity are true and the Bible contains errors, but I don't think that the reason why no version of Christianity is true is 'because' the Bible contains errors. I think the reason is because the Bible has been misinterpreted by Christians, not all of the Bible, but enough of the Bible to make all the versions of Christianity false.
I believe however that there is a central Christianity that is true.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Acts 15:7 isn’t written Peter left the Jews/flock, thus, it doesn’t state that. Paul’s the apostle to the gentiles and Peter’s the apostle to the Jews. They both went to the other at times. It’s not that they did wrong in that or didn’t know what they were doing. They weren’t false prophets that isn’t written. And it’s not written Christians will be with the beast in the end. Are you against some biblical witnesses of Jesus? Are you against The Bible? Are you against Jesus, His Father, or the Spirit? Sorry I ask if you are a believer, but if you are not I take it this forum allows that.
The present most commonly version of the NT was canonized in 367 A.D. by Athanasius, the bishop of Alexandria, and who was a major player in the Nicene Council, convened in 325 A.D. by the Roman emperor Constantine, who was the "beast with two horns like a lamb" who adopted the role of Pontifex Maximus of Julius Caesar, which was the later position of the "Christian" pope. They all received their "authority" from the "dragon"/"devil" per Revelation 13:4. The "dragon" was Constantine's god, Sol Invictus, for whom Constantine glorified on the back of his minted coins. The "Christians" glorify Sol Invictus by keeping his day, the day of the sun, Sunday, as being holy as decreed in 321 A.D by Constantine. As for see Acts 15:7, see below. Peter was "cast into a foreign country" (Rome) per Isaiah 22:18, because he "shamed your master's house". Zech 13:7 points to when Peter denied "Christ", so that the "sheep might be scattered", as mentioned in Mt 26:31-34). Yeshua is not a liar, and he said that if anyone denies me, I will deny them before God in heaven, even though Peter, like Judas Iscariot, were fulfilling Scripture. The foundation of your "house" is lawlessness, based on the "message" (Mt 13:25) of the false prophet Paul, and that "house"/church will fall (Mt 7:22-27), at the "end of the age" (Mt 13:30), when the "good" wheat is ready for harvest.

New King James Version Acts 15:7
And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Peter didn't eat the flesh of the fat.

For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, [which] shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
Zechariah 11:16


The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
1 Corinthians 10:16

Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1 Corinthians 12:27
The leading "shepherds" (Ezekiel 34) are those who eat the fat of the sheep, and do not feed the sheep, nor heal the sheep, nor keep them from being scattered. Peter, who was made "steward, in charge of the royal household" (Isaiah 22:15 & Mt 16:18), has an heir per Isaiah 22:15-25, and that heir is the pope, who takes from the fat of the sheep, and does not feed the sheep the bread of life, heal the sheep, nor does he keep them from being scattered. These fat shepherds will be the first to be "destroyed" when I "bring back the scattered" (Ez 34:16 & Ez 37"24 & Is 22:25), "in that day", when I bring back Israel to the land given to Jacob/Israel (Ez 36:28). According to Isaiah 14:1-2, the "strangers" (Gentiles), those other than Jacob, will be given a choice to be servants/slaves to Jacob/Israel. Yeshua pointed out Peter being among the "fat shepherds", when he told Peter to feed, care and shepherd my sheep in John 21:15-16. Peter was set up to fulfill Zech 11:16. Yeshua came to fulfill prophecy (Mt 5:17).
 
Will you or someone tell me how to reply including what I said? Thanks. What all I’ve tried so far only has your/anothers reply. I’ll write in what you replied to.

Your question is to my statement: There is no error there read the whole context (John 2 further, Mark 14:55-62.
What do you think is in the context which resolves the contradiction?
There is no contradiction in the context. Only the truth and its understanding is in the context. Anyone can hear it. It’s easy to understand with the heart and be of it. Yours/others understanding that it has contradiction or whatever else thought up and applied to it doesn’t effect it at all.
My statement here: The two false witnesses say that Jesus said-I am able to destroy the temple of God.
My statement here, my next statement: Jesus said to those at this temple-destroy this temple. And my last statement in the context: The two false witnesses said wrong what He said. Mark14:59, “But not even then did their testimony agree. “ ln my first and second statements I put a hyphen between what the false witnesses said and what Jesus said to show the difference each said. The false witnesses testimony He said, I am able to destroy the temple of God it is false testimony. He didn’t say that. Jesus’ testimony is true He said to them there, destroy this temple. Thus, He told them there to destroy this temple can only mean themselves that is not telling them what the false witnesses said He told them He will destroy it.

You left out the part about the three days, which is common with the account from the false witnesses.
Well, you didn’t get the first part. Do you now? The three days is also in context with these false witnesses bore witness against Him that their testimony doesn’t agree, Mark 14:57-59. Jesus didn’t say as they said, He will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days He will build another (building like this temple) made without hands. He spoke of in three days raising His body up as this temple His testimony is true and became true. His disciples remembered He had said this and believed the Scripture and His word became true, John 2:21-22.

That's irrelevant. What is relevant is that in all cases where the gospel of John contradicts the synoptics, the gospel of John favours the Pharisees (in this case leaving out the connection between the Pharisees and the false witnesses.
I said here, The two false witnesses said wrong what He said, Mark 14:59, “But not even then did their testimony agree.” I’m showing the Scripture and Jesus’ word are relevant in this discussion. That the false witnesses testimony didn’t agree it is certain the gospel of John didn’t favor them.
False witnesses did rise up; they laid to my charge [things] that I knew not.
Psalms 35:11
The “l” in Psalm 35:11 is David. “They” are in context during David’s time on earth. Read the chapter.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
The leading "shepherds" (Ezekiel 34) are those who eat the fat of the sheep, and do not feed the sheep, nor heal the sheep, nor keep them from being scattered.
And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
Ezekiel 34:23

Psalm 109 (a Psalm of David) condemns Paul, not Peter.
Peter, who was made "steward, in charge of the royal household" (Isaiah 22:15 & Mt 16:18), has an heir per Isaiah 22:15-25
Again, David is mentioned:

And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Isaiah 22:22

When the nail is removed the the legacy ends:

And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, the offspring and the issue, all vessels of small quantity, from the vessels of cups, even to all the vessels of flagons.
In that day, saith YHWH of armies, shall the nail that is fastened in the sure place be removed, and be cut down, and fall; and the burden that [was] upon it shall be cut off: for YHWH hath spoken [it].
Isaiah 22:24-25

The vessels relate to Paul, just as the nail relates to the crucifixion.
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.
Acts 9:15-16

Yeshua pointed out Peter being among the "fat shepherds", when he told Peter to feed, care and shepherd my sheep in John 21:15-16. Peter was set up to fulfill Zech 11:16.
According to that reasoning David was also a fat shepherd (Ezekiel 34:23), which is absurd because David is endorsed by Isaiah:

Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.
Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
Isaiah 55:3-4
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Will you or someone tell me how to reply including what I said?
You can use the multiquote feature to quote from your own post as well as the post your are replying to. Just select the text from the original posts, right click and then add to quotes. After that use the insert quotes button below the reply section at the bottom of the page.
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
There is no contradiction in the context.

The contradiction is that according to John there were no false witnesses, but according to Matthew there were.

But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, [yet] found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
Matthew 26:60-61

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:19
 
Here is the problem. A student of Paul was writing to Timothy in that example. And it only mentions a vague "scripture". It would be incredibly arrogant of the author to assume that he was inspired by God and even "inspired by God" in no way guarantees that there are no errors. It could have errors and still fulfill that verse, which of course would not be scripture itself.

That also means that the Gospels are not "scripture" since that was written before the gospels were written. You are making an unjustified assumption that the whole Bible is "scripture". How would you prove that? Do the errors in Luke and Matthew in regards to the nativity myths mean that they cannot be "inspired by God".
2Timothy 1:1-2, “Paul an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus, To Timothy, a beloved son:” Thus, the Apostle Paul wrote 2Timothy to his son Timothy. That is the true understanding. It is easy to see he continues writing to him, “To Timothy” 2:1a, “You therefore my son,” 3:1a, But know this,” 4:1a, “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Paul wasn’t arrogant. He and his son had already been given God’s inspiration to know the Holy Scriptures-All Scripture as he told him you must continue in the things you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them. So, All Scripture made him wise for salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ to go preach the word to the living and the dead. To be ready that Jesus will judge them at His appearing and His Kingdom.

It looks like you are the one making an unjustified assumption that the whole Bible isn’t the Holy Scriptures-All Scripture. I continue in proving that it is. If you want to explain where you think nativity myths mean errors in Luke and Matthew go ahead.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
2Timothy 1:1-2, “Paul an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus, To Timothy, a beloved son:” Thus, the Apostle Paul wrote 2Timothy to his son Timothy. That is the true understanding. It is easy to see he continues writing to him, “To Timothy” 2:1a, “You therefore my son,” 3:1a, But know this,” 4:1a, “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Paul wasn’t arrogant. He and his son had already been given God’s inspiration to know the Holy Scriptures-All Scripture as he told him you must continue in the things you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them. So, All Scripture made him wise for salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ to go preach the word to the living and the dead. To be ready that Jesus will judge them at His appearing and His Kingdom.

It looks like you are the one making an unjustified assumption that the whole Bible isn’t the Holy Scriptures-All Scripture. I continue in proving that it is. If you want to explain where you think nativity myths mean errors in Luke and Matthew go ahead.
Incorrect. With thousands of gods out there the correct assumption is that they are all fake until they meet their burden of proof. And no, just because the epistle starts that way that does not mean that Paul wrote it. When I see this sort of ignorance it is rather obvious that you have never studied the Bible. Studying the Bible goes far beyond merely reading it. Most biblical scholars do not think that it was written by Paul:

"Although the pastorals are written under Paul's name, they are different from his other epistles, and since the early 19th century, scholars have increasingly seen them as the work of an unknown student of Paul's doctrine.[4][5] They do not address Paul's common themes, such as the believers' unity with Christ,[3] and they reflect a church hierarchy that is more organized and defined than the church was in Paul's time.[5]

Nonetheless, a number of scholars still defend the traditional authorship of 2 Timothy.[4][6][7]"


Some believe that, but it appears to be more due to tradition than anything else. And no, Paul did not have any children named Timmy. Unless he was getting some one the side. In 1 Corinthians 7 (that was written by Paul) he says that he was never married. His use of the phrase "My son" was in the same sense that a Catholic priest would use that phrase today.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
2Timothy 1:1-2, “Paul an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus, To Timothy, a beloved son:” Thus, the Apostle Paul wrote 2Timothy to his son Timothy. That is the true understanding. It is easy to see he continues writing to him, “To Timothy” 2:1a, “You therefore my son,” 3:1a, But know this,” 4:1a, “I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Paul wasn’t arrogant. He and his son had already been given God’s inspiration to know the Holy Scriptures-All Scripture as he told him you must continue in the things you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them. So, All Scripture made him wise for salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ to go preach the word to the living and the dead. To be ready that Jesus will judge them at His appearing and His Kingdom.

It looks like you are the one making an unjustified assumption that the whole Bible isn’t the Holy Scriptures-All Scripture. I continue in proving that it is. If you want to explain where you think nativity myths mean errors in Luke and Matthew go ahead.
If all of it is sposed to be then someone
is pulling your leg.
 
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