Is it Possible to Prove Being the Messiah?

[sooda]

You are talking about one of two prophecies. Why not mention the other?
The Messiah must first come as Redeemer and then as King.

The bible says Israel will reject her Messiah. But those who embrace his humility and accept his "blood
covenant" will reign with Him when He returns.


Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout in triumph, O daughter of Jerusalem! See, your King comes to you,
righteous and victorious, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. And I will cut off the chariot
from Ephraim and the horse from Jerusalem, and the bow of war will be broken. Then He will proclaim peace to
the nations; His dominion will extend from sea to sea, and from the Euphrates to the ends of the earth

Zechariah 12:9
On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.
And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will
look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly
for him as one grieves for a firstborn son

Zecharia 9:9 isn't about Jesus at all.

Zechariah 9:9 was initially fulfilled when the Jewish people celebrated with palm branches the restoration and reconsecration of the Temple by Judas Maccabees during the Maccabean Wars of the second century B.C.

The fulfillment of Zechariah 9:9 is recorded in 2 Maccabees 10.

During this celebration in which Judas Maccabees retook Jerusalem and restored and reconsecrated the Temple after it had been defiled by the Greeks

 

[sooda]

So this is interesting. SOME Jews suffered and died to Redeem OTHER Jews.
And the dead Jews, in heaven, see the results of their suffering, and are glad.
Wow. There's nothing like this anywhere else in scripture - but it must be right
because this story was invented by a Rabbi in the Middle Ages. This Rabbi
couldn't explain what he was doing in exile in Europe and his Promised Land
lay in ruins.

The Servant's Song wasn't written in the Middle Ages.

 

[sooda]

The people who made up the "leadership" of the "Legions" were Roman, those foot soldiers that actually attacked, destroyed and burned Jerusalem were not citizens of Rome, in fact they were not from the lands of today's EU.

The "legions" were not Europeans at all, they were the ancient enemies of the Jewish people, the same nations that Joshua was told to drive out of the Promised Land. They were recruited from the lands of the Middle East that surrounded Judea at that time and they remain there today.

Why did they join the Roman Legions? By their service in the Roman military, they would become Roman soldiers and eventually Roman citizens. We can see this in the historical record at www.roman-empire.net.

 

[PruePhillip]

The Servant's Song wasn't written in the Middle Ages.

Ah yes, but it EXPLAINED AWAY in the Middle Ages, at least,
that is, to other Jews. But the suffering Messiah is a common
motif of many books in the bible - you need to explain them
all away.

 

[sooda]

Ah yes, but it EXPLAINED AWAY in the Middle Ages, at least,
that is, to other Jews. But the suffering Messiah is a common
motif of many books in the bible - you need to explain them
all away.

Isaiah is self explanatory if you read the whole thing. What other scriptures identify the "suffering messiah"?

 

[wizanda]

So you say you are Messiah of today, But would you not be able to prove it to the world?

We can prove it, yet people argue; it has been two thousand years of Rabbinic Judaism being in denial, so if we can't convince them of Yeshua, we will struggle with the rest of prophecy.

would not your question in this thread be obsolete if you already know the answer?

We can already know the answer; in Luke 17:20-37 Christ is rejected by all this generation, and then the Fire cleanses reality - leaving only the enlightened saints after.

There have been many people who claim to be Messiah, what does your claim more correct then those who shown to not be the true messiah?

Evidence is proven by the details.

None of them have noticed the Gospel of John is made up, when compared to the Synoptic Gospels; it clearly shows it is an IQ morality test, the idea people haven't noticed it contradicts the Synoptic Gospels is because they don't know Yeshua.

No one has understood how Simon was called petros, as he would mislead people or that Paul would lead him astray as prophesied (Luke 22:31-32).

In my opinion.

 

[PruePhillip]

Zecharia 9:9 isn't about Jesus at all.

Zechariah 9:9 was initially fulfilled when the Jewish people celebrated with palm branches the restoration and reconsecration of the Temple by Judas Maccabees during the Maccabean Wars of the second century B.C.

The fulfillment of Zechariah 9:9 is recorded in 2 Maccabees 10.

During this celebration in which Judas Maccabees retook Jerusalem and restored and reconsecrated the Temple after it had been defiled by the Greeks

Palm tree waving was probably common for earthly kings. That's why it was done
for Jesus. The occasion for his palm waving lay with the account of the resurrection
of Lazarus which swept Jerusalem. The incident crystallized the Pharisees determination
to kill Jesus - and Lazarus too.

I wasn't aware that Judas Maccabee was the Messiah. I thought he was a local ruler,
certainly not one who reigned to the Euphrates and the whole earth. Have to read my
history books again.

And is Zech 12 also about Judas? Was his body pierced? Will all the Jews mourn
one day because they pierced Judas? Will Judas reign over the earth?

If this is Judas and not Jesus then the same issue applies. You have to explain Judas
away instead.

 

[ChristineM]

The people who made up the "leadership" of the "Legions" were Roman, those foot soldiers that actually attacked, destroyed and burned Jerusalem were not citizens of Rome, in fact they were not from the lands of today's EU.

The "legions" were not Europeans at all, they were the ancient enemies of the Jewish people, the same nations that Joshua was told to drive out of the Promised Land. They were recruited from the lands of the Middle East that surrounded Judea at that time and they remain there today.

Why did they join the Roman Legions? By their service in the Roman military, they would become Roman soldiers and eventually Roman citizens. We can see this in the historical record at www.roman-empire.net.

Much of the Roman army was made up from such recruits.

 

[PruePhillip]

Isaiah is self explanatory if you read the whole thing. What other scriptures identify the "suffering messiah"?

Just read one a few minutes ago concerning the "blood covenant" the Messiah makes
with Israel. Can't recall where it is. But this "blood" comes from a personal sacrifice,
freely offered. The Messiah doesn't run down to the local blood bank - it's his own.

 

[sooda]

Much of the Roman army was made up from such recruits.

Right.. the Roman army that destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem was largely made up of Syrians, Egyptians and Arabs... They were all part of the Roman Empire.

Scofield and the Christian zionists have done a real number on Protestantism.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam

The way to prove it would be to actually do amazing stuff. Fly in the air. Create 20 bodies of yourself simultaneously. Wave your hand and remove all guns from this planet. Volunteer for a firing squad, take 100 shots to the head, then get up and smile.

You're the son of God, after all. That kind of stuff should be simple for you.

Just upping that answer because I'm curious about the messiah's thoughts about this

 

[sooda]

Palm tree waving was probably common for earthly kings. That's why it was done
for Jesus. The occasion for his palm waving lay with the account of the resurrection
of Lazarus which swept Jerusalem. The incident crystallized the Pharisees determination
to kill Jesus - and Lazarus too.

I wasn't aware that Judas Maccabee was the Messiah. I thought he was a local ruler,
certainly not one who reigned to the Euphrates and the whole earth. Have to read my
history books again.

And is Zech 12 also about Judas? Was his body pierced? Will all the Jews mourn
one day because they pierced Judas? Will Judas reign over the earth?

If this is Judas and not Jesus then the same issue applies. You have to explain Judas
away instead.

Zechariah is not about the new testament at all... and certainly not about Judas.

Zechariah 12 begins with the prophecy of many nations laying siege to Jerusalem. Zechariah’s prophecy warns that the nations of the earth will participate in this siege ... which they did.

 

[sooda]

Just read one a few minutes ago concerning the "blood covenant" the Messiah makes
with Israel. Can't recall where it is. But this "blood" comes from a personal sacrifice,
freely offered. The Messiah doesn't run down to the local blood bank - it's his own.

Do you have a verse about the blood covenant?

 

[Vinayaka]

Vanakkam



Just upping that answer because I'm curious about the messiah's thoughts about this

My guess is it just gets ignored. When confronted with something so obvious, just ignore it.

 

[Terry Sampson]

who is the Messiah

I currently take the position that "the Messiah" is a Jewish concept. As such, only traditional Jews' descriptions of the Messiah count and their votes are the only ones that matters. Non-Jews don't get "a say-so" or a vote. Something tells me that there's a very strong probability that you don't satisfy a traditional Jew's description of the Messiah, regardless how liberal that Jew is, and your claim to be the Messiah is about as true as Sister Susan Lange's claim, ... and many of us know how true her claim is.

Would you settle for being a Tzaddik?

 

[sooda]

We have numerous religious textual references, and ideas to backup the idea of who is the Messiah; yet as we see with Yeshua's fulfilment of prophecy, some people will go against it through a lack of study...

So is it ever really possible to actually prove it for sure using careful exegesis or are people to argumentative to really listen?

In my opinion.

The OT is pretty clear that the messiah is an anointed warrior king who will defeat the enemies of Israel. What do you want to argue?

 

[wizanda]

The only way jesus fulfilled the messianic prophecies is by cherry picking those he did meet and ignoring the others.

The Messianic Age did not start two thousand years ago, and neither did Yeshua say it was back then; he told his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ, as it wasn't his time, and when we look at the parables of the Wedding Banquet, the Engagement party at the midnight hour- these are all future events of the Messianic Age being prophesied.

You are welcome to your belief but it is not strong enough to stand up in court.

Since the Bible is a legal book, we have to use the Law to establish the case legitimately, and as saying I can show the case to prove it...

The problem is people don't deal with it as a legal matter, thus we have to remember that John, Paul, and Simon created Christianity, which is contradictory to Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels, and therefore not submissible as legitimate evidence...

Therefore Yeshua was claiming the Messiah shall come at the Messianic Age... Thus even this idea he didn't fulfil all prophecy in one go, is a flawed conclusion of his statements & the Tanakh in the first place.

Approaching the bible with jesus glasses does not change Jewish scripture.

The Hebraic texts all contain Yeshua, and Yehoshua, this is the whole point in the Bible, and it warns this will happen that they will reject Yeshua (Salvation - Deuteronomy 32:15).

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

Concept of Yeshua (Salvation) in the Bible​

So Moses separated the Red Sea in Exodus 14:13, and we saw the Salvation of God interact with mankind.

Then Moses creates a Song in Exodus 15:2 that the Lord will become our Salvation; this is continued by David in Psalm 118 where the Builders reject the Chief Corner Stone, not understanding the depths of prophecy.

The Lord promised David he would become our Salvation if the Children of Ammon were too strong (2 Samuel 10:11), and then fought them with Jehoshaphat (2 Chronicles 20:17).

When the Lord appoints David as a chosen vessel in Psalms 89:19-21, this is paraphrased in Isaiah 52:13-14 (it has been badly translated, it should say anointed, not marred); where the Spirit of Salvation is put into him in Isaiah 52:10-12.

Evolution of Yehoshua
​

Moses changed his friend's name Hosea (Deliverer/Savoir) son of Nun to Yehoshua, which changes it to Shall Deliver or the Lord Saves.

In Exodus 23:20-23 the Lord states he will put his title on his messenger, who has the power to forgive sin, and shall remove the false theologies from the land.

In Joshua 3:10 we see that Yehoshua starts the process of removing the false gods, and that the name then become symbolic of the promise made.

After the Babylonian Exile we see that Yehoshua son of Yehozadek led the people back.

So when we have the name Yehoshua, this is why it says, "he shall save his people" (Matthew 1:21), as it all fits with the Tanakh.
​

jesus being a false Christ​

Sus in Hebrew is the word Grub (H5580) or a Horse (H5483), an untrained animal, i.e. a Beast.

If we add a Yod at the start of a word, it makes it shall be, so J+Sus = Shall be a Beast.

The Strongs reference number amazingly for false christs - pseudochristos is G5580.


Thus it isn't jesus (beast) glasses, taken them off to realize how Yeshua is the Chief Corner Stone.

In my opinion.

 

[Mindmaster]

We have numerous religious textual references, and ideas to backup the idea of who is the Messiah; yet as we see with Yeshua's fulfilment of prophecy, some people will go against it through a lack of study...

So is it ever really possible to actually prove it for sure using careful exegesis or are people to argumentative to really listen?

In my opinion.

Dig up some dead people with a medical doctor present and resurrect them, then I'll believe you're a god. If you can't do that, I'll just believe you're crazy.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

We have numerous religious textual references, and ideas to backup the idea of who is the Messiah; yet as we see with Yeshua's fulfilment of prophecy, some people will go against it through a lack of study...

So is it ever really possible to actually prove it for sure using careful exegesis or are people to argumentative to really listen?

In my opinion.

If one accepts scriptural texts that describe "The Messiah" and his/her attributes and supposed dealings with the world as true evidence, then technically the idea of someone being "The Messiah" would be falsifiable. Meaning you could weed out anyone who wasn't "The Messiah" by comparing their testimonies and actions within their life and livelihood against the scriptural accounts.

But that's a huge "if." I know I don't accept any religious scripture as evidence of anything more than that some people wrote some stuff. Barely any of that "stuff" is falsifiable - at least not the important parts. So I, personally, don't even believe that there can be a "Messiah" at all anyway. Were there indications in this world and this reality that occurrences of deific intervention/activity were somewhat common, or occurred with some frequency at all, then there would be a lot more compelling me to accept certain things. In other words, there would be some kind of thing that could be investigated, and maybe, possibly (?) attributed to a deity. As it stands, there is nothing at all I see in our reality that leads me to believe that there is a deity somewhere pulling strings, or having created it all, etc. Simply no compelling evidence for this idea. And with as imaginative and fallible as I know human to be... well... you know the rest.

 

[sooda]

The Messianic Age did not start two thousand years ago, and neither did Yeshua say it was back then; he told his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ, as it wasn't his time, and when we look at the parables of the Wedding Banquet, the Engagement party at the midnight hour- these are all future events of the Messianic Age being prophesied.

Since the Bible is a legal book, we have to use the Law to establish the case legitimately, and as saying I can show the case to prove it...

The problem is people don't deal with it as a legal matter, thus we have to remember that John, Paul, and Simon created Christianity, which is contradictory to Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels, and therefore not submissible as legitimate evidence...

Therefore Yeshua was claiming the Messiah shall come at the Messianic Age... Thus even this idea he didn't fulfil all prophecy in one go, is a flawed conclusion of his statements & the Tanakh in the first place.

The Hebraic texts all contain Yeshua, and Yehoshua this is the whole point in the Bible, and it warns this will happen that they will reject Yeshua (Salvation - Deuteronomy 32:15).

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

Concept of Yeshua (Salvation) in the Bible​

So Moses separated the Red Sea in Exodus 14:13, and we saw the Salvation of God interact with mankind.

Then Moses creates a Song in Exodus 15:2 that the Lord will become our Salvation; this is continued by David in Psalm 118 where the Builders reject the chief corner stone not understanding the depths of prophecy.

The Lord promised David he would become our Salvation if the Children of Ammon were too strong (2 Samuel 10:11), and then fought them with Jehoshaphat (2 Chronicles 20:17).

When the Lord appoints David as a chosen vessel in Psalms 89:19-21, this is paraphrased in Isaiah 52:13-14 (it has been badly translated, it should say anointed, not marred); where the Spirit of Salvation is put into him in Isaiah 52:10-12.

Evolution of Yehoshua
​

Moses changed his friend's name Hosea (Deliverer/Savoir) son of Nun to Yehoshua, which changes it to the Shall Deliver or the Lord Saves.

In Exodus 23:20-23 the Lord states he will put his title on his messenger, who has the power to forgive sin, and shall remove the false theologies from the land.

In Joshua 3:10 we see that Yehoshua starts the process of removing the false gods, and that the name then become symbolic of the promise made.

After the Babylonian Exile we see that Yehoshua son of Yehozadek led the people back.

So when we have the name Yehoshua, this is why it says, "he shall save his people" (Matthew 1:21), as it all fits with the Tanakh.
​

jesus being a false Christ​

Sus in Hebrew is the word Grub (H5580) or a Horse (H5483), an untrained animal, i.e. a Beast.

If we add a Yod at the start of a word, it makes it shall be, so J+Sus = Shall be a Beast.

The Strongs reference number amazingly for false christs - pseudochristos is G5580.


Thus it isn't jesus (beast) glasses, taken them off to realize how Yeshua is the Chief Corner Stone.

In my opinion.

This futurism is from Scofield and was a political strategy to promote Christian Zionism.