Just because you say something does not make it so.
Show me oh smart one how you can keep an air conditioner running all night without interuption using only wind and solar power?
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Is it right to deny the American people jobs because of your religion?
- Thread starter Reverend Rick
- Start date
Just because you say something does not make it so.
Show me oh smart one how you can keep an air conditioner running all night without interuption using only wind and solar power?
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Explaining to you how solar can be used for uninterrupted power is giving you some sanity?
I like solar, but it is not the end all be all but still pretty cool unless you have a hail storm.
Of course it's not the end-all-be-all at this point. Maybe it'll become that, maybe not. Maybe it'll take several different methods to eventually replace fossil fuels. Maybe we'll never fully replace them, but we can reduce their use to 10% of what it currently is. Who knows? But we need to work towards reducing it as much as we can and hopefully eliminating it.
Interesting. Been looking into that a bit and the report by the polar bear specialist group seems to suggest a continued stable population as well. (Though they do say it is likely to decrease with the loss of hunting grounds in the future)
I guess if we had a world wide power grid you might be able to run on solar and wind 24-7-365 like thats going to happen
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Very true. The same goes for you, which is why I've been asking for support for your claims.
Ask and ye shall receive.
Of course, there are other sources that can be used and if it is known when a plant will go offline is is easy for the controller to have the spinning reserves ready to take up the slack, or have scheduled additional generation.
Solar is great as a supplemental source. It can make things cheaper.
Solar is great for remote areas where there is no power, but you will be on batteries only at night. Its not like you can run an air conditioner all night on a battery.
Not impossible, but a damn large bank of batteries.
I like solar, but it is not the end all be all but still pretty cool unless you have a hail storm.
Where I life solar isn't really very useful wind is more dominant, but in some places of course it is. Batteries on a scale large enough for transmission or even distribution level are not currently viable. I think what is being found though is that as you increase the size of your grid the effects of intermittent are far less than most people think.
There is some extremely interesting work going on into how we can store energy with some very clever heat exchange ideas.
Could probably work on the US grid or the European supergrid if high enough wind penetration was installed. This is an area where tidal powers are expected to do very well because they are extremely predictable.
A battery bank is a UPS system. Do you have any idea how many batteries it would take to store enough electricity to run a 5 ton Heat Pump all night?
Even geothermal systems have water pumps that run constantly, a large request for a battery bank and very cost prohibitive.
One day we may have the technology to store electricity more efficiently or we as a society may just go to sleep at night and do without so much electricity at night if you give up your clothes washing routine and refrigerator.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
Don't know. Do you know what it would take to not have to worry about rainy days, as you claimed?
We've gotten to a different discussion now, though. You brought up rainy days, as if they're a big problem. They're not.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
From "Science Daily:"
Federal Polar Bear Research Critically Flawed, Forecasting Expert Asserts
From the article:
On April 30, U.S. District Judge Claudia Wilken ordered the Interior Department to decide by May 15 whether polar bears should be listed under the provisions of the Endangered Species Act. (Note regarding decision: On May 15, 2008 the polar bear was listed as a 'threatened species' under the Endangered Species Act.)
Professor J. Scott Armstrong of the Wharton School says, “To list a species that is currently in good health as an endangered species requires valid forecasts that its population would decline to levels that threaten its viability. In fact, the polar bear populations have been increasing rapidly in recent decades due to hunting restrictions. Assuming these restrictions remain, the most appropriate forecast is to assume that the upward trend would continue for a few years, then level off.
Federal Polar Bear Research Critically Flawed, Forecasting Expert Asserts
From the article:
On April 30, U.S. District Judge Claudia Wilken ordered the Interior Department to decide by May 15 whether polar bears should be listed under the provisions of the Endangered Species Act. (Note regarding decision: On May 15, 2008 the polar bear was listed as a 'threatened species' under the Endangered Species Act.)
Professor J. Scott Armstrong of the Wharton School says, “To list a species that is currently in good health as an endangered species requires valid forecasts that its population would decline to levels that threaten its viability. In fact, the polar bear populations have been increasing rapidly in recent decades due to hunting restrictions. Assuming these restrictions remain, the most appropriate forecast is to assume that the upward trend would continue for a few years, then level off.
Not all loads need constant power.
As it is now, the power companies here offer "interruptible" service to industrial and commercial clients. In these cases, the building has two electrical services: one constant supply for the critical stuff (office power, fire alarms, emergency lighting, etc.) and an interruptible supply for things the company decides they can do without temporarily if they need to... maybe a production line or two. They pay a lower rate for that interruptible power, but the tradeoff for this is that the power company can call them up (usually in summer heat waves) and say "we need to shut you down - in two hours, we're disconnecting you for twelve hours." When this happens, the factory sends the workers home early for the production line served by the interruptible service.
It's not right for every business, but some think it's worth it.
But I think you're setting up a bit of a straw man when you make the choice out to be green power OR coal/natural gas/etc., since they can work together... at least with natural gas. There's a fair bit of merit in having not just solar or wind, but pair up one of these "green" but intermittent sources with a small natural gas plant that can ramp its output up and down quickly. Yes, the natural gas plant is putting out emissions when it's running, but if your wind power runs, say, 70% of the time, then this means that over the long haul, the natural gas plant is only putting out 30% of the emissions it would if it ran all the time.
Also, I think it's worth pointing out that there's a green (or mostly green) source of power that solved your storage/intermittency problem more than a century ago: hydroelectric. Feed your generator turbine from a reservoir, fill the reservoir at night when demand is low, and release the water during the day. The power stations at Niagara Falls have worked that way for more than 100 years.
The only trick is that it's not practical everywhere - you need a big river, a big drop in grade, and space for a reservoir.
We have hydro-electric here in Kentucky, some old TVA projects from back in the 40's and 50's.
These systems work great, but the local demand exceeds their capacity. Still as you say, it reduces the amount of coal we burn otherwise.
There is some simple solutions for going green. People need to change their life styles.
First thing, we need to get rid of all clothes dryers, hair dryers, curling wands and other power hogs.
We need to have smaller refridgerators.
We need to have thermostats in homes that cannot be adjusted.
Hot water needs to be reduced to several hours a day.
We need to walk and ride bicycles, or at least have the ability to use mopeds and golf carts more.
We need to work closer to home
Kids need to walk to school or ride the bus instead of driving them to the front door.
We could go to a four day work week and work longer hours each day instead.
People should use public transit more.
Folks should car pool.
Fast food drive thru's should be outlawed.
We need to reuse towels when we can.
We could bathe every other day and do a light wash up the other.
We could wear clothing several times between washing, (not underwear).
One day a week EVERYTHING should be closed and folks should make an attempt to stay home.
More folks should work at home.
We are a wasteful 24-7 society.
These systems work great, but the local demand exceeds their capacity. Still as you say, it reduces the amount of coal we burn otherwise.
There is some simple solutions for going green. People need to change their life styles.
First thing, we need to get rid of all clothes dryers, hair dryers, curling wands and other power hogs.
We need to have smaller refridgerators.
We need to have thermostats in homes that cannot be adjusted.
Hot water needs to be reduced to several hours a day.
We need to walk and ride bicycles, or at least have the ability to use mopeds and golf carts more.
We need to work closer to home
Kids need to walk to school or ride the bus instead of driving them to the front door.
We could go to a four day work week and work longer hours each day instead.
People should use public transit more.
Folks should car pool.
Fast food drive thru's should be outlawed.
We need to reuse towels when we can.
We could bathe every other day and do a light wash up the other.
We could wear clothing several times between washing, (not underwear).
One day a week EVERYTHING should be closed and folks should make an attempt to stay home.
More folks should work at home.
We are a wasteful 24-7 society.
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I like most of your suggestions, and that's a good point. There are lifestyle changes we could be doing that don't necessarily have to be quality-of-life limiting.
This particular suggestion caught my eye cuz I was thinking about it the other day, though not in this capacity. Do we really need grocery stores and gas stations open on Sundays? When did that shift happen where everything always needs to be open? Are we unable to plan for one day in which we do without being able to buy things?
When my children lived at home, they would wear shorts in Winter time. I love shorts myself and constantly wear them in warm months, but when I am cold in the house, I put some clothes on or sit under a blanket not raise the thermostat.
What really irritates me is they would love to turn the thermostat down in the Summer but have a cow when it is that low in Winter.
Leaving light bulbs burning in vacant rooms, standing in front of the refrigerator with the door open for minutes and the one thing that makes me go ballistic, standing in the doorway with the door open trying to condition the outside.
Don't even get me started on water usage.
I've always believed use what you need, not what you got.
Finding the washer with one item of clothes in it. Or better yet, leaving the item unattended too long and having to wash it yet again. :yes:
I had a cow one day when I found out my clothes dryer had a feature called wrinkle guard. The damn dryer kicks on every few minutes to fluff till you get off your butt and take it out!:areyoucra
I would like to smack the person who came up with that feature.
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Run-of-river or pumped storage? Many hydro plants as used as a balancing mechanism to get generation up quickly to meet the sharp peaks in load demand. Unlike thermal stations you can have the running at full whack in under a minute instead of hours at least.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
These are not realistic.
Many of these are good ideas. I would personally love the 4-day work week.
work in progress
Well-Known Member
Exactly why is a marketing expert put in charge of forecasting polar bear populations by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service? And why didn't whoever filed this story for the Sciencedaily website ask that question?
Regardless, whether or not Polar Bear populations are increasing or decreasing, does not deal with the issue that sea ice and permafrost are melting at increasing rates: Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Polar Bears are more specialized for their niche of seal hunting and living mostly out on the ice flows. But, all bears are resourceful creatures, and as the sea ice melts and becomes too thin for stalking the seals' breathing holes, the bears move inland looking for food. Polar bears are increasingly hanging around settlements, foraging through garbage and looking for food, and this is the most obvious reason for the rise in polar bear sightings in recent years. But whether the bears survive or not, there is other Arctic wildlife that is dependent on pack ice, and will not make the transition to an ice-free Arctic Ocean.
And, if you think a melting Arctic Ocean is of little or no consequence to us, consider that climatologists and meteorologists have made the connection between more open water in the Arctic summers, and the changes to the Arctic Oscillation and North Atlantic Oscillation weather systems, which have wreaked havoc with the weather in North America and Europe and Northern Asia over the last few years: NASA - Looking at Earth
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What proof do we have that these things are happening because of things man does on the planet?
A better question would be, what is even possible for us to do anything about it besides a few well meaning gestures that would have little effect?
Why? Please explain in detail why we need to have our homes so comfortable at great expense I might add. Many folks keep their homes heated or cooled all day at unrealistic temperatures just for the convienience of when they return home.
There is a great green technology called a clothes line, perhaps you have heard of it.
Do you really need a big refrigerator?
Our hair will dry naturally, why on earth do we need to have hair dryers?
Do you not see the hypocrisy of your argument?
Another thing that needs to be mentioned is the size of an average home. Why would this be less of an issue than a size of a car? Do we really need a bunch of rooms in a home we hardly ever use like a formal dining room for example.