• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is it true Trump supporters just want a father figure?

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well I'll agree if the multimillionaires and billionaires that compromise the left's elitists themselves actually make sacrifices sufficient to enable those promises. Do you honestly think for a NewYork minute, they will actually do that?
The elitists, I think, are on the right. It's always been the right that supported the interests of the rich. The left, historically, has advocated equality and human rights.
Want to know what universal Healthcare actually does? I'll tell you. Its purposely designed to enrich even more multimillionaires and billionaires.
How are you defining "universal healthcare?" Socialized? Single payer? Regulated insurance? How would a non-profit system profit millionaires? Do the socialized police or fire departments profit the rich?
 
Last edited:

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Well I'll agree if the multimillionaires and billionaires that compromise the left's elitists themselves actually make sacrifices sufficient to enable those promises. Do you honestly think for a NewYork minute, they will actually do that?

Want to know what universal Healthcare actually does? I'll tell you. Its purposely designed to enrich even more multimillionaires and billionaires.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Rarely do the decisions of the POTUS affect me, and if they do at most they are an annoyance. I certainly don't expect any benefit at the expense of the Federal Government. Sorry, I can't really relate to your comment here.
The decisions do affect you. Perhaps the effects are not be direct enough for you to notice.
Trade agreements, environmental regulations, economic management, military decisions, foreign relations, &c affect us all, and by "us all" I mean everyone on the planet.
IDK, nothing has really changed for me. My life has always been more dependent on my choices than anything the government chooses to do. What do you want the government to do for you? You seem to have expectations I don't have.
I want the government to be a self-help co-operative designed to deliver security and prosperity. It might not directly support the 'economic royalists', but they have the means to buy support.
Competition doesn't reliably deliver either security or prosperity.
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
Rarely do the decisions of the POTUS affect me, and if they do at most they are an annoyance. I certainly don't expect any benefit at the expense of the Federal Government. Sorry, I can't really relate to your comment here.

Soooo, you don't think that decisions a POTUS makes about climate, like say, withdrawing from the Paris Accords and allowing more, not less, toxic emissions affects you? Or continuing to bully the crap out of Middle Eastern potentates somehow won't affect you when they've had enough? Or entering unwinnable trade wars that just jack up the price of food or goods for everybody doesn't affect you? Hmmm, annoyances seems such a mild word for these effects.

IDK, nothing has really changed for me. My life has always been more dependent on my choices than anything the government chooses to do. What do you want the government to do for you? You seem to have expectations I don't have.

Yes, weighing options, making choices and owning their consequences is key to a successful life now and the ones following.

Thank you for asking what I want the government to do for me. When you say you "don't expect any benefit at the expense of the federal government," I want to remind you just who pays the expenses of the federal government. It's you and me, the taxpayer. I assume you pay taxes, not everyone does. ;) For my tax dollars, I want the government to do those things which are efficiently done at a national level, e.g., a national transportation network and infrastructure, a military (alas, we need one 'cuz of things we've said and done in the past), help for schools which need it (an educated citizenry is critical for a republic), an equitable tax system.... things like that.

My expectations are that if I pay my taxes and don't violate the laws of the land, the government will stay the heck out of my business and personal life and quit trying to tell me they know what's best for me. I want my government to give me the freedom to completely screw up my life on my own, based on my own choices. I don't need them doing it for me or herding me into a path of choices none of which are of my choosing.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Soooo, you don't think that decisions a POTUS makes about climate, like say, withdrawing from the Paris Accords and allowing more, not less, toxic emissions affects you? Or continuing to bully the crap out of Middle Eastern potentates somehow won't affect you when they've had enough? Or entering unwinnable trade wars that just jack up the price of food or goods for everybody doesn't affect you? Hmmm, annoyances seems such a mild word for these effects.

I expect the government to be more of a problem than a benefit. My ideal is to prepare for the worse case. When the worse case doesn't happen I guess it is a lot less dramatic.

Yes, weighing options, making choices and owning their consequences is key to a successful life now and the ones following.

Thank you for asking what I want the government to do for me. When you say you "don't expect any benefit at the expense of the federal government," I want to remind you just who pays the expenses of the federal government. It's you and me, the taxpayer. I assume you pay taxes, not everyone does. ;) For my tax dollars, I want the government to do those things which are efficiently done at a national level, e.g., a national transportation network and infrastructure, a military (alas, we need one 'cuz of things we've said and done in the past), help for schools which need it (an educated citizenry is critical for a republic), an equitable tax system.... things like that.

My expectations are that if I pay my taxes and don't violate the laws of the land, the government will stay the heck out of my business and personal life and quit trying to tell me they know what's best for me. I want my government to give me the freedom to completely screw up my life on my own, based on my own choices. I don't need them doing it for me or herding me into a path of choices none of which are of my choosing.

Well, something we can agree on. I may be just less optimistic about it.
 
How is Trump authoritarian? I hate Authoritarians, so do all Trump supporters, so I'm curious where this silly notion is coming from.
How authoritarian is he? Let me count the ways ...

I assume you saw how Trump used state violence to suppress free speech at Lafayette Square, right?

upload_2020-10-12_18-48-38.jpeg


upload_2020-10-12_18-50-4.jpeg
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The decisions do affect you. Perhaps the effects are not be direct enough for you to notice.
Trade agreements, environmental regulations, economic management, military decisions, foreign relations, &c affect us all, and by "us all" I mean everyone on the planet.

I suppose I see it more as a challenge than an adverse condition. So not affect the ability to achieve my goals. I may have to alternate my plans because of the government but I just accept this as part of life.

I want the government to be a self-help co-operative designed to deliver security and prosperity. It might not directly support the 'economic royalists', but they have the means to buy support.
Competition doesn't reliably deliver either security or prosperity.

I see security/prosperity as a challenge. Maybe sometimes the government ends up being an obstacle, rarely has it, in my experience been supportive of these goals. So if these things happen, great. If not, I'm not going to be terribly upset. Just another obstacle in life to deal with.
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
I expect the government to be more of a problem than a benefit. My ideal is to prepare for the worse case. When the worse case doesn't happen I guess it is a lot less dramatic.

Well, something we can agree on. I may be just less optimistic about it.

For sure, Nakosisji, we agree on some things. I practice my crises, too, in my mind running scenarios so that I act smartly, in accordance with dharma, with all the equanimity I can muster to the task.

And I literally laughed out loud when you rated that post "optimistic." You do got that right, I acknowledge. :D
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I was just thinking about the thread title, and I was wondering: If Trump supporters want a daddy, does that mean Hillary supporters wanted a mommy? Did Obama supporters want a cool older brother? Did Sanders supporters want a crazy but lovable uncle? Did Reagan supporters want a grandpa? Did Nixon supporters want a shady second cousin?
 
I was just thinking about the thread title, and I was wondering: If Trump supporters want a daddy, does that mean Hillary supporters wanted a mommy? Did Obama supporters want a cool older brother? Did Sanders supporters want a crazy but lovable uncle? Did Reagan supporters want a grandpa? Did Nixon supporters want a shady second cousin?
We need to get back to a functioning adult first. Then we’ll talk.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I was just thinking about the thread title, and I was wondering: If Trump supporters want a daddy, does that mean Hillary supporters wanted a mommy? Did Obama supporters want a cool older brother? Did Sanders supporters want a crazy but lovable uncle? Did Reagan supporters want a grandpa? Did Nixon supporters want a shady second cousin?
Its clear Biden is handing out candy pacifiers so his supporters can suck on the goodness he's spewing out.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Well I'll agree if the multimillionaires and billionaires that compromise the left's elitists themselves actually make sacrifices sufficient to enable those promises. Do you honestly think for a NewYork minute, they will actually do that?

Want to know what universal Healthcare actually does? I'll tell you. Its purposely designed to enrich even more multimillionaires and billionaires.

Silly twilight... it was the REPUBLICANS who gave the ulta-rich trillions in tax breaks.

And you've CLEARLY been brainwashed about healthcare. You see, the system we have NOW is the one that skims off trillions of dollars to make insurance companies and the pharmaceutical industry rich. If you look at countries that actually HAVE universal healthcare you'd know that they pay a fraction of what WE pay for the exact same services.
 
Seven key points in answer to the OP, IMO:

1. Half of America hated Hillary Clinton in 2016. Trump had zero record in government and was therefore a gamble, but also a blank canvas. Some said we needn’t worry about his antics because he will surround himself with good advisors (boy were they wrong, huh?). Plus, Trump outflanked Hillary on the left. He won by razor thin margins in several swing states like Pennsylvania where a sliver of Obama-turned-Trump voters (yes, they exist) saw Trump as the only candidate who seemed to care about the meth epidemic, the Rust Belt, loss of good American factory jobs, and curbing Wall Street (which endorsed Hillary) and keeping America out of endless wars. This resonated. This was how it started.

2. Trump was in a huge field of similar Republican primary candidates. Most Republicans opposed him initially, but those Republicans were divided between Kasich, Fiorina, Carson, Rubio, Jeb Bush, etc. The minority of GOP voters supporting Trump’s brand were united behind a single candidate. Once it became clear he would be their nominee, the remaining GOP voters who didn’t like Trump initially, had a choice: roll the dice on him or hand victory to Clinton. This was when support for Trump snowballed.

3. In a vicious cycle, Trump acting like a clown made his supporters dig in their heels. Who wants to admit they supported a clown? At some point, Trump does so many embarrassing things that denial is a less humiliating option.

4. Trump may be a bully ... but he’s *their* bully. For those on the right to oppose Trump would require some degree of selfless patriotism, a belief that some things are more important than just winning - like rule of law and fighting fair.

5. Related to above: Trump might be unfit for high office ... but that risk is borne by the whole country. If he succeeds, those rewards accrue to his party / those who support his agenda. It’s a “party over country” attitude. He’s not going to separate them from *their* children.

6. Half of America lives on a different plane of reality. Fox News is America’s most watched news network. Many now ingest Breitbart and OANN. These networks put a positive spin on what Trump does and portray Trump’s opponents as pure evil. They also deny accurate journalism much as creationists deny science ... evidence, like Trump’s actual tax returns or the observed death count during a respiratory pandemic, is something Satan plants to test the faith.

7. Related to above: when unchallenged, Trump can be extremely convincing to those who are only half paying attention. Not because he’s smart but because he’s shameless. He can tell 20 lies before anyone has a chance to notice the first lie. He can say 10 incoherent things but his audience will remember the one “zinger” that landed. He does not drink. He does not watch sports. He has tons of energy. And he’s rich and powerful (even if he’s not as rich as he says he is).
 
Last edited:

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Check out Robert Altemeyer's free ebook on the scientific study of people who follow authoritarian leaders. It's short, to the point, and written with a keen sense of humor. It will tell you everything you need to know to understand the mindset of authoritarian followers. Altemeyer was a scientist who dedicated his whole career to the study of people willing to follow the likes of a Donald Trump, and his expertise shows.

The Authoritarians.

For some reason, the link fails for me.
I get a debug message for Wordpress.

I've tried on both Edge and Chrome in case it was a browser extension issue. Is it still working for you??
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
For some reason, the link fails for me.
I get a debug message for Wordpress.

I've tried on both Edge and Chrome in case it was a browser extension issue. Is it still working for you??

Correct, Lewis. The link is not working now, throws the error re WP that you got. Bummer, hope it gets fixed, it was illuminating for me.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Do the socialized police or fire departments profit the rich?
And that's an important point, especially since the word "socialism" is thrown around here like it's nasty candy.

If one doesn't want "socialism", then:
-don't collect Social Security.
-don't accept Medicare.
-be upset that all federal office-holders get "socialized medicine", including Trump.
-don't support our armed services that also includes them being on "socialized medicine".
-don't drive on our interstate highway system.
-don't accept any federal subsidies that help private businesses.
-return the stimulus money you got from the government.
-don't go to an airport or dock.
-etc.
-etc.
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
Correct, Lewis. The link is not working now, throws the error re WP that you got. Bummer, hope it gets fixed, it was illuminating for me.

Hi, everybody~
I had copied the article for my sister yesterday when she couldn't get it to load (different error). Here's the text but it's worth trying again later to get to this guy's home page.

By
Christopher Ingraham
Oct. 12, 2020 at 4:00 a.m. PDT

The Trump administration’s response to the coronavirus pandemic has been a catastrophic failure, with researchers at Oxford University estimating that its mismanagement of the crisis resulted in nearly 60,000 preventable deaths.

And yet, despite the tumult of the past eight months, President Trump’s favorability numbers have barely budged: His approval rating hovers in the low 40s, just as it has most of his presidency. As the economy cratered and covid-19 mortality skyrocketed, the Trump faithful stuck with him, lending credence to his infamous 2016 campaign boast that he “could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody” and not lose any support.

Why is that?

A new book by a psychology professor and a former lawyer in the Nixon White House argues that Trump has tapped into a current of authoritarianism in the American electorate, one that’s bubbled just below the surface for years. In “Authoritarian Nightmare,” Bob Altemeyer and John W. Dean marshal data from a previously unpublished nationwide survey showing a striking desire for strong authoritarian leadership among Republican voters.

They also find shockingly high levels of anti-democratic beliefs and prejudicial attitudes among Trump backers, especially those who support the president strongly. And regardless of what happens in 2020, the authors say, Trump supporters will be a potent pro-authoritarian voting bloc in the years to come.

Altemeyer and Dean define authoritarianism as what happens “when followers submit too much to the authorities in their lives.” They measure it using a tool Altemeyer developed in the early 1980s, called the right-wing authoritarian (RWA) scale.

The “right-wing” label refers not to left and right political leanings as they’re popularly understood today, they write, but rather to a more legalistic sense of “lawful, proper, and correct.” It’s used to identify authoritarian tendencies among people of any political persuasion — supporters of the Communist Party in the former Soviet Union, for instance, would have scored high on the scale despite having decidedly leftist economic and political views. The scale remains one of the most widely used measures of authoritarianism to this day.

Altemeyer’s scale measures respondents’ agreement or disagreement with 20 statements, such as: “Our country desperately needs a mighty leader who will do what has to be done to destroy the radical new ways and sinfulness that are ruining us” and “It is always better to trust the judgment of the proper authorities in government and religion than to listen to the noisy rabble-rousers in our society who are trying to create doubt in people’s minds.”

For each statement, a respondent can select an answer on a sliding scale ranging from 1 (total disagreement) to 9 (total agreement). The final score on the 20-question survey ranges from 20 (total opposition to authoritarianism) to 180 (total support).

The authors enlisted the help of the Monmouth University Polling Institute to pose these questions to 990 American voters in fall 2019. They asked participants to answer the questions on the RWA scale, as well as some separate measures of authoritarian beliefs and prejudice toward minority groups.

They found a striking linear relationship between support for Trump and an authoritarian mind-set: The stronger a person supported Trump, the higher he or she scored on the RWA scale. People saying they strongly disapproved of Trump, for instance, had an average RWA score of 54. Those indicating complete support of the president, on the other hand, had an average score of 119, more than twice as authoritarian as Trump opponents.

Many fervent Trump supporters, Altemeyer and Dean write, “are submissive, fearful, and longing for a mighty leader who will protect them from life’s threats. They divide the world into friend and foe, with the latter greatly outnumbering the former.”

Trump’s personal authoritarian bona fides are well-established, with experts across numerous academic fields warning that his attacks on basic democratic principles present a clear danger to the American political system. But his beliefs and actions are toothless without the support of millions of followers.

“Donald Trump only has the power to flaunt American institutions, treaties, and laws because he has a large, dedicated base who will believe whatever he says and do whatever he wants,” Altemeyer and Dean explain.

Other researchers have reached similar conclusions using very different methods. Vanderbilt political scientist Larry Bartels, for instance, recently used YouGov survey data to find that many Republican voters hold strong authoritarian and anti-democratic beliefs, with racism being a key driver of those attitudes. Researchers have also consistently found that separate measures of authoritarian belief, such as a short survey of attitudes toward child-rearing, are reliable predictors of Trump support.

Not all of the president’s supporters fall into the “authoritarian” category, however. Monmouth’s polling director Patrick Murray, who administered the survey, recently wrote that about 23 percent of strong Trump supporters scored in the middle or bottom of the authoritarian scales used in the survey. Moderate Trump supporters, meanwhile, are split roughly 50/50 between “high” and “moderate to low” on the scales.

Many, however, express extremely authoritarian viewpoints. Roughly half of Trump supporters, for instance, agreed with the statement: “Once our government leaders and the authorities condemn the dangerous elements in our society, it will be the duty of every patriotic citizen to help stomp out the rot that is poisoning our country from within,” which Altemeyer and Dean characterize as “practically a Nazi cheer.”

Among people who disapproved of Trump, just 12 percent agreed with that statement.

“Trump’s supporters are much more inclined to stomp out the people they dislike than Trump’s opponents are,” Altemeyer said in an email. “This reflects the authoritarian aggression that is a central part of the RWA personality.”

One common criticism of the RWA scale is that it could simply be a proxy for generic conservative or religious beliefs, such as respect for tradition or a deference to religious authority. Murray tested this idea by running the scale without questions touching on religious identity and sexual norms. He found the different versions of the scale produced findings that were nearly identical to the original 20-question battery, suggesting the scale is measuring a distinct psychological attribute that can’t be explained away by religiosity or political ideology.

Contemporary discussions on authoritarian backsliding in the United States tend to focus on Trump and his allies in Congress. But Altemeyer and Dean’s work is a reminder that his followers will remain a potent force in American politics for years to come.

“Even if Donald Trump disappeared tomorrow,” they write, “the millions of people who made him president would be ready to make someone else similar president instead.”
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
And that's an important point, especially since the word "socialism" is thrown around here like it's nasty candy.

If one doesn't want "socialism", then:
-don't collect Social Security.
-don't accept Medicare.
-be upset that all federal office-holders get "socialized medicine", including Trump.
-don't support our armed services that also includes them being on "socialized medicine".
-don't drive on our interstate highway system.
-don't accept any federal subsidies that help private businesses.
-return the stimulus money you got from the government.
-don't go to an airport or dock.
-etc.
-etc.
Many just hear the word "socialism" and immediately get angry, paranoid and frightened.
The power of radical-right emotional trickery
 
Top