Is it wrong if you want to know a partners or potential partner's biological/original gender?

[MysticSang'ha]

I agree completely.

I would hope so.

Hold up....you two agree?

 

[Poeticus]

Sure. Why not? But it's not her responsibility to cater to his sensitivities. He had sex with a trans-female. If it was that big of a deal to completely avoid someone like her, then it's his responsibility to ensure that never happens for him.

It's not her responsibility to read his mind and say, "Oh, btw, since I understand hardly anybody wants to sleep with somebody like me, you need to know that I'm transgendered. I understand if you want nothing to do with me now."

Heaven forbid, that isn't compassionate toward Tom. That's an extreme self-loathing on her part. And yet, this is what it looks like folks here are suggesting. She should assume that nobody wants anything to do with her, and should act accordingly and call it "empathy" or "compassion" towards Tom.

Good answer.
- - - - - - -
Is it appropriate to ask a female if she is cis or trans?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Good answer.
- - - - - - -
Is it appropriate to ask a female if she is cis or trans?

If you're going to freak out like Tom? Yes. Otherwise, on a one night stand, everybody involved is taking a risk.

 

[Koldo]

I think Tom should have warned Shirley beforehand that he's a bigot so she could have avoided sleeping with him.

Sometimes it is just so convenient to resort to name calling.
I confess I have to resist this temptation once in a whole.
I hope you will succeed the next time. I have high expectations for you.

 

[DallasApple]

Have you watched imitation of life?

Anyway Shirley did not know he was transphobic, they just had sex that is it.

I understand.But my comment was from the angle that the assumption is cis/males prefer sex with cis/females and even if its not just sex.Like a relationship.Under a reasonable assumption that he would not be with her if he knew.Some have argued that its not his business to ever know.I don't know.I guess it comes down to a matter of personal integrity.I would personally rather be in a relationship with someone who knew that about me and loved and respected that part of me too.

 

[Koldo]

Good answer.
- - - - - - -
Is it appropriate to ask a female if she is cis or trans?

If you're going to freak out like Tom? Yes. Otherwise, on a one night stand, everybody involved is taking a risk.

In other words: You shouldn't be picky.

 

[Koldo]

Hold up....you two agree?

When is the next world's end coming up?
It must be a sign that it is close by.

 

[Poeticus]

If you're going to freak out like Tom? Yes. Otherwise, on a one night stand, everybody involved is taking a risk.

But, what if you don't engage in one night stands because you don't agree with one night stands, and are getting an arranged marriage?

In other words: You shouldn't be picky.

Is it picky to prefer cis-women?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Sometimes it is just so convenient to resort to name calling.
I confess I have to resist this temptation once in a whole.
I hope you will succeed the next time. I have high expectations for you.

How does Tom not fit the definition of a bigot in the given scenario, i.e., if he enjoys having sex with Shirley and doesn't even notice that she's a transgendered person and then suddenly panics or freaks out when he realizes that she's one? Do you have any explanation for why he would do so except if he were irrationally biased against transgendered people?

 

[DallasApple]

Do you have any explanation for why he would do so except if he were irrationally biased against transgendered people?

Giving him the benefit of the doubt..that he believes Shirley is actually a man.Causing him major confusion being convinced he had sex with a man but he is 100% hetero.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Consider the following situation:

Two people are at a social gathering. One, call her Shirley, is an transgender woman, the other is a straight cis-male, call him Tom. Tom approaches Shirley, believing that she is a cis-female. They flirt and Tom takes Shirley back to his place where they end up in bed together, and eventually consent to intercourse.

Later on, Tom learns through a mutual friend, John, that Shirley is in fact a transgender woman, and was assigned male gender at birth. After that, Tom is angry, and refuses to approach Shirley. He claims he feels "violated" and was was “deceived”, and it was “unethical”, because if he’d known she was trans, he would not have consented to intercourse.

My questions:

1. Was Tom wrong to suddenly reject Shirley on the basis that she is transgender?
2. Should Shirley be obligated to tell Tom her birth gender before consent?
3. Is it wrong for cisgender individuals to only prefer other cisgender individuals, to the exclusion of transgender people?

If you could explain why you answered the way that you did, that would be helpful.

Also you could imagine the situation mentioned above in reverse, but I don't think the answer should be different.

Tom's full of crap because he'd have to be retarded to not be able to tell the difference between an actual vagina and the mutiliated gash that results from a male to female sex change operation.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Giving him the benefit of the doubt..that he believes Shirley is actually a man.Causing him major confusion being convinced he had sex with a man but he is 100% hetero.

If Tom believes Shirley is actually a man despite evidence to the contrary, then it's his problem and no one else's. I don't see why she should have to take responsibility for that.

 

[Poeticus]

Tom's full of crap because he'd have to be retarded to not be able to tell the difference between an actual vagina and the mutiliated gash that results from a male to female sex change operation.

I missed you.

 

[DallasApple]

If Tom believes Shirley is actually a man despite evidence to the contrary, then it's his problem and no one else's. I don't see why she should have to take responsibility for that.

She shouldn't have to be "responsible' for it but his refusing to see her again because that is what he believes is his right.A further relationship with Tom is not her entitlement.

Some people can not GRASP the concept of a person identifying themselves as a gender that does not match their external sex organs.I think is "can" be the case its more of a confusion or an ignorance than the person "gets it' and is simply a bigot.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't think anyone is arguing that a further relationship with Tom is Shirley's entitlement (or even something she'd want to do at this point anyway).

 

[Debater Slayer]

She shouldn't have to be "responsible' for it but his refusing to see her again because that is what he believes is his right.A further relationship with Tom is not her entitlement.

Some people can not GRASP the concept of a person identifying themselves as a gender that does not match their external sex organs.I think is "can" be the case its more of a confusion or an ignorance than the person "gets it' and is simply a bigot.

I agree with this, but the hypothetical is supposedly about a one-night stand, not a long-term relationship.

 

[Koldo]

How does Tom not fit the definition of a bigot in the given scenario, i.e., if he enjoys having sex with Shirley and doesn't even notice that she's a transgendered person and then suddenly panics or freaks out when he realizes that she's one? Do you have any explanation for why he would do so except if he were irrationally biased against transgendered people?

The OP already explains that.
He felt mislead and violated.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The OP already explains that.
He felt mislead and violated.

Why? What is "misleading" about it? He doesn't even realize she's a transgender until someone else tells him.

Also, if someone wants to have that much entitlement and is so picky about the details, why does he have a one-night stand to begin with?

 

[Koldo]

Why? What is "misleading" about it? He doesn't even realize she's a transgender until someone else tells him.

That is exactly why he felt mislead.

Also, if someone wants to have that much entitlement and is so picky about the details, why does he have a one-night stand to begin with?

What might be a detail to you, might be something important to another person.

 

[Debater Slayer]

That is exactly why he felt mislead.

"Felt mislead" makes it sound like he was tricked into something harmful against his will. How does her being a transgender matter in the first place if he doesn't notice it and enjoys having sex with her?

What might be a detail to you, might be something important to another person.

Okay, I have a question, now that you brought this up: Do you think any two people who are about to have sex with each other are obligated to share their entire medical history with each other? If they are, then why? And if not, then why are you arguing differently in the case of the transgendered person in the hypothetical?