Is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin?

[Mr Cheese]

Jeremiah,
The determining factor of what is right and wrong is God's right to determine.
Interestingly, there is a term; decisionism, which means that whatever the legislature decides is right or wrong. That may be for people of this world, but God's people are NOT of this world, just as Jesus was NOT, John 15:18-21, James 4:4, 1John 2:15-17.
The rulers of this world do not know what they are doing when they make laws that directly go against God's laws. They will pay for their ignorance!!
We get a very clear idea of what God thinks of homosexual acts by what He has had recorded in His word, the Bible, Lev 18:22, Lev 20:13. This is also in the Christian Greek Scriptures, Rom 1:26,27,33, 1Cor 6:9-11, 1Tim 1:9,10.
True Christians speak the truth, John 4:23,24, 18:36,37, Heb 10:38,39. God hates liers, Ps 5:6, Rev 20:8.

:clapyes Tartar is right....

Follow the bible or burn in hell sinners..fornicators...homosexuals and reader's digest subscribers...

BURN BURN BURN

 

[slave2six]

Anything that goes against the will of God is sinful.

I'd be interested to see God's will. Did he sign it? Who were his attorneys? If the will is in effect, that must mean that God is dead, right?

 

[Mr Cheese]

I'd be interested to see God's will. Did he sign it? Who were his attorneys? If the will is in effect, that must mean that God is dead, right?

Funy thing is, God's will is written down...

you can find it in many books...

Remember kiddies, if you dont follow a book you're gonna die in torment

 

[Alceste]

Same thing really. How a person defines right and wrong is up to the individual for the most part. However, to try and use your opinion of right and wrong to judge someone else is relatively hypocritical if your own view of right and wrong is one of non-judgment.

Who said anything about non-judgment? I judge, but I base my judgment on what we know so far about the real, actual, factual, empirical world we live in, and on a very carefully considered ethical framework that is based on love and compassion and takes the facts as we know them into account.

So, judging being that I am, basing my judgment on what we know about the real world, I judge religious nutcases who spout religious BS about God hating homosexuality to be wrong, because it promotes violence and discrmination against homosexuals and increases the incidence of teen suicide.

That's not called hypocrisy, it's called reason. Do we want to promote deadly violence against homosexuals, and double the incidence of teen suicide for homosexuals? If that's what you want, reason can just as easily lead to the conclusion that preaching that God hates homosexuality is right. It all depends on what your aims are. Mine are advocating the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for everyone. What are yours?

You say that I am lying, however, in order for a person to lie they must first know the truth and then knowing that it is the truth disregard it.

Are you telling me nobody has ever informed you that people are born homosexual, that homosexuality occurs throughout nature in almost every species with two genders, and that there is no empirical evidence whatsoever that homosexual behavior causes any kind of harm to anyone?

Don't be ridiculous. You've been informed of the facts, but simply discarded the ones that don't fit into your religious fantasies.

 

[TheKnight]

Eh, there's no point arguing this. The OP has already been addressed.

 

[Alceste]

Eh, there's no point arguing this. The OP has already been addressed.

I actually really would like to know what your aims are, though. Maybe I'll start a thread.

 

[Caladan]

I would never soil myself to sink to their level. By reciprocating in the same manner, making laws to discrimination against bigots, we'd be no better then they are. We should not let them drives us to compromise our freedom of speech, in any manner, or discrimination has won.

Technically I was commenting that in a way just like singling out the GLBT community as citizens who are not accommodated by equal privileges or rights, so did modern history know a times of institutionalized discrimination against other minorities, and Im in the cautious optimism that with the next decades a critical mass will deal with the dicrimination.

 

[HouseofIsrael]

And if your God does not exist - if your religion is an entirely human creation, then what?

Still doesn't justify the act .

 

[HouseofIsrael]

I'd be interested to see God's will. Did he sign it? Who were his attorneys? If the will is in effect, that must mean that God is dead, right?

Haha... the mind of man truly isn't ordinary. Anyways, homosexuality is inhumane and contributes nothing to society but personal pleasure to those who partake therein.

 

[Azakel]

Haha... the mind of man truly isn't ordinary. Anyways, homosexuality is inhumane and contributes nothing to society but personal pleasure to those who partake therein.

Where's your proof of this? You have nothing but you ignorant close mind to back you.

 

[HouseofIsrael]

Where's your proof of this? You have nothing but you ignorant close mind to back you.

Maybe. Prove me wrong constructively.

 

[Azakel]

You said:

Haha... the mind of man truly isn't ordinary. Anyways, homosexuality is inhumane and contributes nothing to society but personal pleasure to those who partake therein.

Maybe. Prove me wrong constructively.

So it should be up to you to prove yourself in this matter.

But anyway. Homosexuality is a part of Nature, Humans are a part of Nature. So in truth it's not inhumane. What's Inhumane is religions like yours that demonize and damn people who are Homosexual just because some Sky Daddy tribal god "Say so" in a 2000 year old book written by man.

 

[riverfox]

So Azakel..if "part of nature" means that it is practised by some humans and in many species,
this doesn't mean it's right or unharmful,As animals and humans practise many harmful things that even homosexuals might disagree with like incest.
I'm only suggesting that you should not defend homosexuality depending on what animals do or what people do with or without knowing that it is harmful.Could you please show us why it isn't harmful without saying that it's natural ?

 

[Magic Man]

Haha... the mind of man truly isn't ordinary. Anyways, homosexuality is inhumane

I'm going to assume you meant "inhuman", but regardless, it's neither one of those adjectives.

and contributes nothing to society but personal pleasure to those who partake therein.

Yeah, I guess we should do away with having pets, too, or having friends. I mean, really, if your actions aren't contributing directly to society, then you should stop those actions, right?

 

[Magic Man]

So Azakel..if "part of nature" means that it is practised by some humans and in many species,
this doesn't mean its right or unharmful,As animals and humans practise many harmful things that even homosexuals might disagree with like incest.
I'm only suggesting that you should not defend homosexuality depending on what animals do or what people do with or without knowing that it is harmful.Could you please show us why it isn't harmful without saying that it's natural ?

Yes, the fact that it's found in nature doesn't automatically mean it's not wrong or bad. What it does mean is that it's not unnatural, which is an argument many opponents of it use to justify calling it wrong.

Maybe. Prove me wrong constructively.

OK, there's nothing inhumane or inhuman (don't know which you meant, but they're both wrong) about homosexuality. It's two people who are attracted to each other expressing that attraction. That's a very human thing to do, and as long as it's between two informed, consenting adults (which, of course, would be the same restrictions I'd place on heterosexuality), it's certainly not inhumane.

It also contributes to society. The more people who are happy in a society, the better that society is probably going to be. Also, allowing gay marriages would add to the marriage wedding planning industries, thereby adding to our economy.

But regardless of that, since when is "contributing to society" a requirement for something not to be wrong or immoral? I like walking in the woods. Should I stop that because it's not contributing to society except for the pleasure to me?

 

[Buttons*]

I think it is wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin. I think it supports and contributes to prejudice against and ignorance of homosexuality. I think spreading the idea, that homosexuality is a sin, is harmful to many, especially gay youths (who are not worldly enough to see past the nonsense).

I want to know what other think about this.

Now, to be clear, I am not questioning the right to spread this nonsense. I understand freedom of expression and its importance. But just because something is lawful that does not mean it is right.

Agreed on most of it. I think, though, that the importance here shouldn't be to hide the idea that homosexuality is considered a sin by many Abrahamic faiths. Faith is important, and the laws of each religion are meant for a purpose, even if we don't understand it. The idea should be that the love of our fellow man despite of the "sin" is more important than tearing one down because of the "sin" in question. If one is a real Christian, for instance, they know and believe that they, themselves, are always sinning, and needing forgiveness to try again. It doesn't matter if they are homosexual, cheating on their spouse, beating their children, lying, suffering from an addiction...etc... the list goes on forever on the kinds of sins one can commit.

For instance, I know a Christian couple who, while they don't believe homosexuality is the way of God, they also don't condemn others for their personal choices. Everyone has to deal with God, so they believe, and come to terms with their own sins. In other words, they themselves have enough sin to keep them occupied - and don't have the time or hate to spend putting someone else down. This should be the idea. Love everyone, and help those who say they want help with whatever "sin" affects them. There's no reason to take the idea of "sin" away from religion, but there is a reason to take the hate away.

 

[Alceste]

Still doesn't justify the act .

So is "the act" justified when you do it?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Yes, the fact that it's found in nature doesn't automatically mean it's not wrong or bad. What it does mean is that it's not unnatural, which is an argument many opponents of it use to justify calling it wrong.



OK, there's nothing inhumane or inhuman (don't know which you meant, but they're both wrong) about homosexuality. It's two people who are attracted to each other expressing that attraction. That's a very human thing to do, and as long as it's between two informed, consenting adults (which, of course, would be the same restrictions I'd place on heterosexuality), it's certainly not inhumane.

It also contributes to society. The more people who are happy in a society, the better that society is probably going to be. Also, allowing gay marriages would add to the marriage wedding planning industries, thereby adding to our economy.

But regardless of that, since when is "contributing to society" a requirement for something not to be wrong or immoral? I like walking in the woods. Should I stop that because it's not contributing to society except for the pleasure to me?

Wearing clothes are unnatural
so is wearing lipstick
heck so is microwaving food that has been wrapped in plastic

You know, typing on a computer is unnatural too
....

Of course snorting cocaine is not unnatural, maybe that is why the Amish sell coke (not pepsi)

Literalism and the innability to bend one's ideals or to change one's norms is rather silly.

Religion is a club hence the beatings
Spirituality is a path hence the journey

One's approach to the divine should be one of GROWTH, if one is stuck in their ways, they are like the dinosaur in the tar pit. In order to become an adult we must grow, or else we end up as adults, wearing diapers...refusing to change and grow.

Change is inevitable
Growth is optional
Choose wisely

Of course if one looks at history, Americans were giving women lobotomies (and another wonderful process involving acid and parts of the body)into the early part of the 20th century for actually enjoying sex. given this information, is it really any wonder that people are bigots? No. not really.... things change, but often it can take centuries....

Here are two quotes from two seperate traditions that illustrate the point that, if one seeks to be set in stone, eventually they will go the way of the Dodo

......

The highest good is like water;

Water is good at benefiting the ten thousand things


and yet It does not

compete with them.



It dwells in places the masses of people detest,

Therefore it is close to the Way.

In dwelling, the good thing is the land;

In the mind, the good thing is depth;

In giving, the good thing is being like Heaven;

In speaking, the good thing is sincerity;


In governing, the good thing is order;


In affairs, the good thing is ability;


In activity, the good thing is timeliness.

It is only because it does not compete, that therefore it

is without fault.

–Tao Te Ching (chap 8, trans. By Robert G Henricks)


“True will is participation in Divine Will. True awareness is participation in Divine Mind.


True life is actually participation in Divine Life. We don’t own them, we only participate.


If I am not the owner of will and consciousness, only a participant, then who am I?


The truth is that the self is the most elusive, most difficult to cognize. Why is this so? Because the self is that which is seeing. The eyes cannot see themselves.”



- David Aaron (Seeing God: Ten Life-Changing Lessons of the Kabbalah)

 

[Mr Cheese]

Agreed on most of it. I think, though, that the importance here shouldn't be to hide the idea that homosexuality is considered a sin by many Abrahamic faiths.

From certain parts of Abrahamic faiths...

More esoteric modes within those faiths, often are not homophobic...

why?

Ultimatly there are many reasons, one clear one that we find is:

"Spirit" has no Gender
A person's true self is in turn, "above" gender

It is a bit like driving a car, once again. I can read the manual and understand driving a car. But once I actually drive a car, I soon find, there are things that simply are not and never will be in any manual

 

[HouseofIsrael]

You said:


So it should be up to you to prove yourself in this matter.

But anyway. Homosexuality is a part of Nature, Humans are a part of Nature. So in truth it's not inhumane. What's Inhumane is religions like yours that demonize and damn people who are Homosexual just because some Sky Daddy tribal god "Say so" in a 2000 year old book written by man.

What are you talking of my friend, why everything religious you relate to Jesus? Anyways, I do not demonized homosexuality, i'm saying it's not of God and only offers pleasure to those who partake.