Is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin?

[emiliano]

"What reason do we have to recognize you as one?"

We who? Your hateful type is becoming the minority; this is because of the hate you spread; it cames back on you; it will always come back on you. You are killing your own church, Emiliano, and driving people away from "God" simply because you can't let go of your hate. You should do the church a favor and stop pretending like you speak for "God" and the church.

Evil will turn back on itself, Emiliano, and the seeds of hate you sow today will only hurt your cause tomorrow.

Firstly it is the Holy Bible, the Christian sacred Book that says it, no me.
If you care to check what I have debated is the attempt of gay people to corrupt our tenet and tell that unrepeated practicing Gays can claim a right to acceptance to a Christian church.
You are killing your own church, Emiliano.:areyoucra
Hell no! That’s you are trying to do, just don’t call yourselves a Christian because you are not, Christianity is based on the Bible and is clear, call it something more appropriate to what you preach.

 

[Kerr]

Firstly it is the Holy Bible, the Christian sacred Book that says it, no me.

It´s you. We must all interpret what we read before we can understand it, there is no skipping that step. What you are talking about is your interpretation of the words, not the words themselves. There are many Christians that would disagree with what you are saying.

If you care to check what I have debated is the attempt of gay people to corrupt our tenet and tell that unrepeated practicing Gays can claim a right to acceptance to a Christian church.

Gay people have the right, just like anyone else, to fight for being accepted. There is no more into it then that, they (if there is such a thing, in my opinion there is only us) are not trying to corrupt anything.

You are killing your own church, Emiliano.:areyoucra
Hell no! That’s you are trying to do, just don’t call yourselves a Christian because you are not, Christianity is based on the Bible and is clear, call it something more appropriate to what you preach.

People do not run towards fire, they tend to try and avoid it because it burns. Same with fundamentalism and hate.

 

[Autodidact]

Firstly it is the Holy Bible, the Christian sacred Book that says it, no me.

Actually, as we have repeatedly established, the Holy Bible DOES prohibit remarriage after divorce, but DOES NOT repeat, DOES NOT prohibit lesbianism. It is not at all clear whether it prohibits homosexuality.

Hell no! That’s you are trying to do, just don’t call yourselves a Christian because you are not, Christianity is based on the Bible and is clear, call it something more appropriate to what you preach.

But the Bible doesn't prohibit lesbianism. It does tell us to love one another, though.

 

[J Bryson]

I just want to go back to the idea that lesbian parents will somehow hate men so much that they will pass this on to their children.

Now, I'm well aware that "anecdote" does not equal "data", but I'd like to pass on the following: A few months ago, I had the pleasure of meeting a young woman who was raised by same-sex parents. Both of her mothers had brought her up to be polite, respectful, open-minded, and yet willing to strongly defend her positions to the point that she had started a straight/gay alliance at her school. During my conversation with her, I noticed no disgust in her face, body language, or voice, even when I made my heterosexuality evident by mentioning my girlfriend. Generally speaking, the same has held true of the other children I've met who were raised in same-gender households. They were almost invariably straight, ran the gamut from being somewhat bratty to being model citizens, and were in all ways like nearly every other child out there.

 

[WhoKnows777]

Seems to me Jesus talked about judging and all that good stuff. Also seem to recall a bit about all having sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

If homosexuality is wrong and I am inclined to think that it probably IS NOT then God will judge it just like everything else. I think that people who work(including cooking on the Sabbath) may have more to worry about than gay people. Remember too, God is judging on thoughts as well as actions. Well that is my understanding and I could be wrong.

I think God loves all people and that virtually everybody, gay, straight, fat, skinny etc will end up in Heaven. I get that from Revelation, Chapter 7 when it talks of the "great multitudes" that cannot be counted as there are so many, who have been cleansed as they prepare to be with God. I like the sound of that. I hope I will be among them but only God knows that. I can have faith,but only God knows where I am going.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hell no! That’s you are trying to do, just don’t call yourselves a Christian because you are not, Christianity is based on the Bible and is clear, call it something more appropriate to what you preach.

Well, can I safely say that you are indeed no Christian? Not only are you not showing the message of love that Christ preached time and time again, you are also being very judgmental, which Christ also said not to df course, "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", but you also have to cease to willingly sin, or you might find yourself in the category of "for many shall come before me and say Lord, Lord......but I will say to them I do not know you. And they will be cast out into darkness where there will be gnawing and gnashing of teeth."

 

[shadze]

Firstly it is the Holy Bible, the Christian sacred Book that says it, no me.
If you care to check what I have debated is the attempt of gay people to corrupt our tenet and tell that unrepeated practicing Gays can claim a right to acceptance to a Christian church.
You are killing your own church, Emiliano.:areyoucra
Hell no! That’s you are trying to do, just don’t call yourselves a Christian because you are not, Christianity is based on the Bible and is clear, call it something more appropriate to what you preach.

Rubbish the bible doesnot condemn homosexuality. It your biased that does. give me scriptural reasons outside of idol worship that this is not acceptable. God has given clear instructions what he considered was immorality. Not once is samesex mentioned outside of idol worship. you cannot tell me that every fornication is noted in the old testament and God has not used the appropiate words for same sex relations. Even in rthe many commandments. Lesbainism was not mentioned. The bible is quiet about same sex relations. Again the church decided to attack a minority. your religion sickens me. You spout love and are condmening. You misreprersent God. THe bible is not clear on same sex relations. And as i say again Jesus is going to have a polygamist and same sex relationship with his church. This is the reality of it.

 

[Jeremiah]

Firstly it is the Holy Bible, the Christian sacred Book that says it, no me.
If you care to check what I have debated is the attempt of gay people to corrupt our tenet and tell that unrepeated practicing Gays can claim a right to acceptance to a Christian church.
You are killing your own church, Emiliano.:areyoucra
Hell no! That’s you are trying to do, just don’t call yourselves a Christian because you are not, Christianity is based on the Bible and is clear, call it something more appropriate to what you preach.

"Firstly it is the Holy Bible, the Christian sacred Book that says it, no me."

I find it more likely, Emiliano, that this prejudice comes from you and not the Bible. I seriously doubt you follow the Bible in its entirety and you are simply cherry picking from the book and using it to justify your prejudice.

Also, it is cowardly to hide behind the Bible and claim it is the one spreading the prejudice. You are clearly the one here and clearly the one speaking the "message". The Bible is just a book and it only has the power you give it. Further more, you show a total lack of faith in the "message" you spread if simple criticism causes you to finger point "God". Trying in blame "God" and/or the Bible for the hate you are spreading is despicable. At least have the spine to stand by your convictions.

"Hell no! That’s you are trying to do, just don’t call yourselves a Christian because you are not, Christianity is based on the Bible and is clear, call it something more appropriate to what you preach."

I am not a Christian and I never claimed to be one. And you may whine all you want but you simply do not have the authoriy to decide what constitutes a Christian and what does not. An openly, active gay man/woman may follow the teaching of Christ and the Bible however they deem fit and they are well within thier power to refer to themsevles as Christian. There is simply nothing you can do about that, no matter how much you stomp your foot. It has never been your job to sort out who is a Christian and who is not; that task would be up to the Christian God.

 

[emiliano]

Rubbish the bible doesnot condemn homosexuality. It your biased that does. give me scriptural reasons outside of idol worship that this is not acceptable. God has given clear instructions what he considered was immorality. Not once is samesex mentioned outside of idol worship. you cannot tell me that every fornication is noted in the old testament and God has not used the appropiate words for same sex relations. Even in rthe many commandments. Lesbainism was not mentioned. The bible is quiet about same sex relations. Again the church decided to attack a minority. your religion sickens me. You spout love and are condmening. You misreprersent God. THe bible is not clear on same sex relations. And as i say again Jesus is going to have a polygamist and same sex relationship with his church. This is the reality of it.

Well this is going nowhere; I won’t quote the Apostle many instruction the Christian’s churches, but I remind you that that those churches are the ones that where first to be known as Christian. The apostle spend a great deal of time rebuking the Judaists (those that demanded that new convert remained as some kind of a Jew.

1Cr 6:9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, [fn] nor sodomites, ​

As you can see it is clear “homosexuals, [fn] nor sodomites,”

1Cr 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.​

The Church must sanctify itself, to be apart from sin, nobody can remain in their sin and be a Christian, if the Church preaches against Saint Paul’s doctrines it should not call themselves a Christian congregation and if I have not church that sticks to sound Christian’s doctrines I will revert to house churches rather than accept these new doctrine that it was prophesied that would come at one point in time ( preachers of demon’s doctrines.

 

[shadze]

Sodomites - What Does
That Word Mean?

Sodomites are frequently alleged to be inhabitants of the ancient Canaanite city which God destroyed. Many Christians assume that when the Bible uses the word, it is referring to the men of Sodom who are thought to be homosexuals. The question is, Does this viewpoint fit the facts of history as given in the Bible?


Thinking Christians are interested in
what the Bible actually says, not
merely what it is presumed to teach.

55 times our English Bibles use the word Sodom and related English words, sod@mite, sod@mites, Sodoma. Yet strangely enough, in Hebrew, Sodom and sod@mite are not related words. For this reason, its easy to draw the wrong conclusion, that Sodom and sod@mites are related when in fact, they are not etymologically related.

1. Never in any of the Sodom passages does God say that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality.
2. Never in any of the Sodom passages does God or a human author of the Bible link homosexuality with Sodom.
3. Never in any of the sodomite(s) passages does God or a human author of scripture link sodomites(s) with a committed, faithful, non-cultic partnership between two men or two women.
4. Never in any passage that mentions Sodom does God deal with the subject of gay marriage. Isn't that interesting?

On the other hand, whenever the Hebrew words qadesh or qadesha are used in scripture, they refer to a pagan worshiper of the fertility goddess. Therefore when we translate from Hebrew to English (or any other language), if we're honest, we must retain the original Hebrew meaning instead of translating it to mean homosexual.
Because qadesh and qadesha, as used in the Bible, never refer to gay men or lesbian women in committed, faithful, non-cultic partnerships, it is wrong to assert that qadesh and qadesha mean homosexual in English when they clearly did not mean homosexual in Hebrew.
Sodomites, qadesh and qadesha, in the Bible were male and female worshipers of the Canaanite fertility goddess, not homosexuals and not lesbians.
Sodom was an ancient Canaanite city, Genesis 10:15-19, 13:12. The pagan Canaanite religious worship of the people of Sodom included precisely the same cultic, religious, sexual activity which was forbidden by God in Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 and Deuteronomy 23:17-18.
The important link between the ancient inhabitants of Sodom and ancient "sodomites" is cultic sexual worship of the Canaanite fertility goddess,

not committed, faithful, non-cultic
same sex relationships.

Almost all the inhabitants of Sodom were destroyed by God, Genesis 19:24. The only people who escaped destruction were Lot and his two daughters.
The people of Sodom were infamous for their pride, greed and inhospitality. Biblical writers, ancient historians and Jesus Himself remark on the inhospitality of the inhabitants of Sodom but they never mention homosexuality. Don't you find that interesting?
Every time Sodom and sodomite(s)
are mentioned in the Bible

Every Time Sodom is mentioned in the Bible. This Link will open in a new page.
Please don't take my word for it. Look up the verses for yourself in your own Bible and discover that God never mentions homosexuality in connection with His judgment on Sodom.

Genesis 10:19, 13:10, 12, 13, 14:2, 8, 10-11, 12, 17, 21-22, 18:16, 20, 22, 26, 19:1, 4, 24, 28Deuteronomy 23:17 - shrine prostitute
Deuteronomy 29:23, 32:32
Job 36:14 - margin, qadesh, shrine prostitute
Isaiah 1:9-10, 3:9, 13:19
Jeremiah 23:14, 49:18, 50:40
Lamentations 4:6
Ezekiel 16:46, 48-49, 53, 55-56
Hosea 4:14 - harlots, qadeshah, shrine prostitutes
Amos 4:11
Zephaniah 2:9
Matthew 10:15, 11:23-24
Mark 6:11
Luke 10:12, 17:29
Romans 9:29
II Peter 2:6
Jude 7
Revelation 11:8, 22:15 - dogs (compare Deu 23:17-18 - “dog” was a derogatory name for a shrine prostitute).
​

 

[shadze]

Define Arsenokoites - This word NEVER meant homosexual.

Australian Scholar Dr. Ann Nyland
On The Meaning Of arsenokoites

Dr. Ann Nyland, Faculty in ancient Greek language and Ancient History in the Department of Classics and Ancient History,
the University of New England in Australia.
Dr. Ann Nyland, translator of The Source New Testament and The Gay and Lesbian Study Bible, on arsenokoites.

"The word arsenokoites in 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 has been assumed to mean “homosexual.” However the word does not mean “homosexual,” and its range of meaning includes one who anally penetrates another (female or male), a rapist, a murderer or an extortionist.


When used in the meaning “anal penetrator,” it does not apply exclusively to males as the receptors, as it was also used for women receptors. The word does not appear in any Greek literary source until the poets of the Imperial period. This late occurrence is most significant as the Greeks wrote at length on male-male sexual relationships.
The cognate verb [arsenokoitein] appears in the Sibylline Oracles ii.73 me arsenokoitein, me sukophantein, mete phoneuein, where it is in company with committing extortion and committing murder.
Pseudo-Macarius Aegyptius, Homiliae spirituales IV 4.22, stated that the people of Sodom sinned greatly and did not repent, and “created the ultimate offense in their evil purpose against the angels, wishing to work arsenokoitia upon them.”
Aristides said that the Greek gods commit murders and poisonings, adulteries, thefts and arsenokoites in the context of rape.
The 6th c. astrologer Rhetorius Aegyptius used the term as women with the receptors: “arsenokoites (of women) and rapists of women.”
Dr. Ann Nyland on arsenokoites. This Link will open in a new page. http://gayandlesbianbible.com/index.php?pr=Excerpt
​

A Brief Biography of
Dr. Ann Nyland

Ann Nyland, an Australian scholar whose research field is Greek Biblical lexicography based on the papyri and inscriptions, holds a Ph.D. in New Testament lexicography, graduate degree (double major) in Classical Greek language, Honors Degree in the Ionic dialect of Greek. She served as faculty in ancient Greek language and Ancient History in the Department of Classics and Ancient History at the University of New England in Australia. Nyland is published (academic journals) in the field of Greek and Hittite lexicography.
Nyland's father, a Classicist, taught her Latin before English, which created a love of ancient languages. When Nyland was six years old, she accepted the Lord as her Savior. As a teenager, Nyland received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and joined a Spirit-filled church.
Her mother eventually became a pastor of a small church in an area marked by poverty. Following in her mother's footsteps, Nyland also served as a pastor.
Impartial students of scripture can see that the arsenokoit stem has a range of meaning which rarely, if ever carries the meaning of homosexual.
The Way Our Ancestors Actually
Used These Words
Must Guide Us
As We Define Arsenokoites

We have demonstrated on this page, that no use of the arsenokoit stem in antiquity, describes committed, noncultic homosexual partnerships between equals, as we understand them today.
Therefore, when we define arsenokoites, honesty requires that our definition must fit the way our ancient ancestors actually used the word.

 

[emiliano]

Shadze.
As I said this is going nowhere fast, I will give you a pointer; if you are going to cited argument against the Epistle what you must do is to find arguments that address what was in it Authors mind, I have no doubts about the apostle Paul’s intended used of the comparison of the sexual immoral conduct the inhabitants of Sodom and his audience. As I said the apostle is clear on the use of that word and relate it that passage and Christians believe that Paul was inspired by God in what he wrote, so? The answer to the initial question is no it is not wrong for Christians to advocate homosexuality as a sin and this is false “Never in any of the Sodom passages does God or a human author of the Bible link homosexuality with Sodom” Paul did linked it. And also this “Never in any passage that mentions Sodom does God deal with the subject of gay marriage. Isn't that interesting? Cause the master did.

Mat 19:4
And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made [fn] [them] at the beginning 'made them male and female,'
Mat 19:5
and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? [fn]
Mat 19:6
So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."
​

Then you have to go back to "Have you not read that He who made [them] at the beginning 'made them male and female” It is clear to me that marriage is between a male and female. How interesting is that?

 

[shadze]

Shadze.
As I said this is going nowhere fast, I will give you a pointer; if you are going to cited argument against the Epistle what you must do is to find arguments that address what was in it Authors mind, I have no doubts about the apostle Paul’s intended used of the comparison of the sexual immoral conduct the inhabitants of Sodom and his audience. As I said the apostle is clear on the use of that word and relate it that passage and Christians believe that Paul was inspired by God in what he wrote, so? The answer to the initial question is no it is not wrong for Christians to advocate homosexuality as a sin and this is false “Never in any of the Sodom passages does God or a human author of the Bible link homosexuality with Sodom” Paul did linked

REPLY
Paul linked nothing . you really need to take some language lessons. The thread I gave actually says that the correct way of translating arsenokoites has nothing to do with homosexuals . Other translations call it effemniate or even male prostitute. If paul wanted to condemn same sex relations then he would simply of used the correct word for homosexual which he never. Even the hebrew for quaddash which used later for sodomite never referred to homosexual. Thier were words the writer could of used. And finally lesbian relations are not mentioned in the bible. You assume a lot.

Mat 19:4
And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made [fn] [them] at the beginning 'made them male and female,'
Mat 19:5
and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? [fn]
Mat 19:6
So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."


​

Then you have to go back to "Have you not read that He who made [them] at the beginning 'made them male and female” It is clear to me that marriage is between a male and female. How interesting is that?

Actually you are wrong thier also. The Bride of Christ will be made of both Men and woman. How can Christ in all reality be married to men as according to you this would be a abomination to God. Even if it is figurative. Christ cannot marry men .Also this marriage will be poligamist. You must remeber the only way christ can marry both sexex who are one if they are Adam. He the head and we the body. If I went to caught and said I was married and My partner is Christ then it will be a same sex union. So the reality is marriage and gods view to marrige is not clear

 

[LittleNipper]

REPLY
Paul linked nothing . you really need to take some language lessons. The thread I gave actually says that the correct way of translating arsenokoites has nothing to do with homosexuals . Other translations call it effemniate or even male prostitute. If paul wanted to condemn same sex relations then he would simply of used the correct word for homosexual which he never. Even the hebrew for quaddash which used later for sodomite never referred to homosexual. Thier were words the writer could of used. And finally lesbian relations are not mentioned in the bible. You assume a lot.




Actually you are wrong thier also. The Bride of Christ will be made of both Men and woman. How can Christ in all reality be married to men as according to you this would be a abomination to God. Even if it is figurative. Christ cannot marry men .Also this marriage will be poligamist. You must remeber the only way christ can marry both sexex who are one if they are Adam. He the head and we the body. If I went to caught and said I was married and My partner is Christ then it will be a same sex union. So the reality is marriage and gods view to marrige is not clear

HE is not speaking in terms of sex, but in terms of ownership. HIS bride. In Jewish tradition, there was a waiting period from the time a man and woman were betrothed and the actual ceremony. However, at the time of the betrothal, for all intensive purposes, they were considered married...

 

[shadze]

HE is not speaking in terms of sex, but in terms of ownership. HIS bride. In Jewish tradition, there was a waiting period from the time a man and woman were betrothed and the actual ceremony. However, at the time of the betrothal, for all intensive purposes, they were considered married...

Yet in Jewish tradition the bride was a woman.I really doubt it was a Man. Also if christ in the hetereosexual sence leaves his Father which is God and becomes of one flesh with his bride thats the church it gets really interesting. After all Christ must be a example to all. Any way you look at it. The truth of the matter is Chirst will marry men and have a poligamist marriage.