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Is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin?

strange

Member
I personally cannot quote where in the bible it says that sex is a gift from God. It may or may not say that but either way it is easy to come to the conclusion that it is in fact a "gift".

In Genesis 2 we see the first ever so called "marriage".

The Lord God said, 'It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him'...and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, 'This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man.' For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

I think its safe to conclude from this account in Genesis that marriage is God's idea, designed and instituted by the Creator. In these verses we also discover that at the heart of God's design for marriage is companionship and intimacy. Sex is the ultimate form of intimacy between a husband and wife. Not to seem barbaric or anything but lets face it, sex feels good and not only that it allows for the miracle of life in the form of a new human being created by the father and the mother. If you can't call that a gift then I don't know what to call it.

I personally cannot quote where in the bible it says that sex is a gift from God. It may or may not say that but either way it is easy to come to the conclusion that it is in fact a "gift".

In Genesis 2 we see the first ever so called "marriage".

The Lord God said, 'It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him'...and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, 'This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man.' For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

I think its safe to conclude from this account in Genesis that marriage is God's idea, designed and instituted by the Creator. In these verses we also discover that at the heart of God's design for marriage is companionship and intimacy. Sex is the ultimate form of intimacy between a husband and wife. Not to seem barbaric or anything but lets face it, sex feels good and not only that it allows for the miracle of life in the form of a new human being created by the father and the mother. If you can't call that a gift then I don't know what to call it.

Bear with me as I quote from Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae, pp. 549:

" Do we need sacraments? You can't unite men in a religion unless they share visible symbols or sacraments keeping them together. Mankind's salvation requires sacraments. They suit man's nature: he comes to know the spiritual world that only mind can grasp by way of the physical world he perceives with his senses. They also suit man's state after sin: he has subjected himself to an affection for the physical, and the remedies he needs must be applied to the place where the wound is. And finally they suit man's leanings toward external activities, offering him salutary alternatives to superstitious observances and worship of idols. It is true that purely external practices are not of much use, but sacramental practices are not purely external: they signify and cause something spiritual. And though Christ's sufferings are enough to save man, that doesn't make sacraments unnecessary. It is Christ's sufferings that give them their efficacy, and which they apply to men: All of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into his death.

Sacraments were not needed in the state of innocence either as remedies for sin or as means of achieving knowledge adn grace in the soul. Though Adam needed grace in that state, he acquired it spiritually and invisibly, not throught external perceptible signs. but after Adam's sin, the highest parts of man's sould need to receive their perfection through the physical world. Marriage, it is true, was instituted in the state of innocence, but for the sake of its natural function, not as a church just as everthing else thta proceeded Christ prefigured him. . . ."

This state of innocence, really no need of a marriage and there was no marriage mentioned. No rules of marriage, no commandment to marry. "Heterosexual union and procreation are not definitive factors of being human." "They have two responsibilities; procreation and dominion as "male and female". It is in the totality of "male and female" that the responsibility for procreation exists. That totality does not necessarily imply that all, individual males and female must procreate. It is human relationality and not procreation that highlights the uniqueness of humankind in creation, as created in "the image of God"." Considering the often cited biblical texts on homosexuality.

The emphasis here is the "image of God" that not only relates to virtues and vices as in other threads in this forum; it is also about spirit, about morality about what the Bible is all about, the human condition. I took a class on Revelation from a Catholic priest with a Ph.D in theology and he taught that heaven is on earth. Life is what you make of it. It is relational. Your life effects others so your morality, other's morality, is what makes you life on earth, heaven or hell.

So there is no where in the Bible that orders up marriage. There are verses about the relational aspect of marriage. There are some marriage ceremonies. There is symbolism about marriage. Pick up a concordance and research marriage in the Bible.
 

Zebulun

Member
Right, whatever, but it's OK for people who are not Christians to be gay, right? Because to them your book is just a book, written by men, and your God is a figment of your imagination. Is this an area where you can just agree to disagree and do your personal best to avoid being a homosexual, or is it necessary to preach homophobic BS all over the internet? It's between you and God. If you think God thinks it's wrong to be a homosexual, just don't be one. Do you think God wants you poking your nose into other people's business, judging them, and speaking down to them as if you're his personal messenger boy? If I was God, I'd be really annoyed with people like you. Why would an omnipotent being need YOU to explain his wishes to other people? Especially after he has given you explicit instructions simply to love your neighbour, and not to judge him.

With all do respect, I never had any intention of judging anyone here. It is not my place to judge others. I am simply debating my viewpoint on the issue. Since when has that ever been considered as judging others. I believe that homosexuality is a sin just like I believe stealing or telling a lie is a sin. I am not a homosexual but I have done my fair share of stealing and lying therefore I am a sinner and I am no better off in God's eyes than any homosexual out there or any other human being on earth for that matter.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
With all do respect, I never had any intention of judging anyone here. It is not my place to judge others. I am simply debating my viewpoint on the issue. Since when has that ever been considered as judging others. I believe that homosexuality is a sin just like I believe stealing or telling a lie is a sin. I am not a homosexual but I have done my fair share of stealing and lying therefore I am a sinner and I am no better off in God's eyes than any homosexual out there or any other human being on earth for that matter.
Well, I for one, find you equating a part of me with being a thief or a liar to be offensive and rude.
 

Zebulun

Member
So there is no where in the Bible that orders up marriage. There are verses about the relational aspect of marriage. There are some marriage ceremonies. There is symbolism about marriage. Pick up a concordance and research marriage in the Bible.

It never says you must get married in the bible either. Paul the apostle said he would rather no one get married and stay celibate like him so that one may focus on the Lord more. Paul also realized that this is very hard for most people to do.
However, with that being said I do very strongly believe that when two people decide to get married the bible is very clear that this union is to be between a man and a woman.
 

slave2six

Substitious
I do very strongly believe that when two people decide to get married the bible is very clear that this union is to be between a man and a woman.
The Bible is also very clear that slavery is okie dokie and even Paul says that slaves who are Christians should be good little slaves and honor the massa no matter how evil the massa might be.
 
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Zebulun

Member
The Bible is also very clear that slavery is okie dokie and even Paul says that slaves who are Christians should be good little slaves and honor the massa no matter how evil the massa might be.

I am not familiar with the verse that says slavery is okie dokie.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Well isn't that what this thread is debating to find out?
No. It's pretty much accepted in the enlightened world that there is nothing inherently wrong with homosexuality. The question is how do we who live in a society that values freedom of expression with deal with those who insist upon living in the dark ages and spread their ignorant message of hate.

The OP:
I think it is wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin. I think it supports and contributes to prejudice against and ignorance of homosexuality. I think spreading the idea, that homosexuality is a sin, is harmful to many, especially gay youths (who are not worldly enough to see past the nonsense).

I want to know what other think about this.

Now, to be clear, I am not questioning the right to spread this nonsense. I understand freedom of expression and its importance. But just because something is lawful that does not mean it is right.
 

Zebulun

Member
Well then back to the topic. I think it is ok for people to express their views that homosexuality is wrong in the same way I think that it is ok for people to express their views that abortion is wrong. However I think that people (especially Christians) should do this in a loving manner and should not be so quick to condemn everyone to hell.
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Well then back to the topic. I think it is ok for people to express their views that homosexuality is wrong in the same way I think that it is ok for people to express their views that abortion is wrong. However I think that people (especially Christians) should do this in a loving manner and should not be so quick to condemn everyone to hell.
Hmmm.... what exactly would be a "loving manner" of telling something that who they are is wrong and a sin?
 

averageJOE

zombie
I believe that homosexuality is a sin just like I believe stealing or telling a lie is a sin.

OK...
Lying is a sin, and homosexuality is a sin. Got it.

If a gay man wanted to "repent" his homosexual sins to get accepted into a Christian church wouldn't that gay man then be lying to himself by not being true to himself?

In short, are you saying that this hypothetical gay man is a permanent sinner in God's eyes?
 
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