Is it wrong to advocate homosexuality as a sin?

[Autodidact]

Response: Yes.

I'm sorry, not clear. Sin is what Allah prohibits in the qu'ran, or not? tx.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: Sure. But having sex is through lust.

But we've alreadly established that sex can be an expression of love, have we not?

 

[Former Minister]

I have talked with many Homosexuals and I have have never been told by one that they chose this lifestyle. If there is a God in Heaven, he made them this way for his reasons that were not suppose to understand. Were suppose to remain stupid and not understand the Bible. I have met with many scholars and none of them understand the Bible. Oh, they pretend to when preaching but there using their own interpertation. All you have to do is ask yourself why we have so many religions. The simple answer is that everyone that reads the Bible come up with their own answers. Smart people have read the Bible many times and many have come to the same conclusion that I did. It's a book of fiction. Some stay in the profession for the money since they have no other trade. Some are ashamed to admit that they no longer believe. Some will now comment that we were never real Christians or that we allowed the Devil to get to us. If you enjoy your Christian life and you need this crutch then by all means continue believing.

 

[Magic Man]

Response: The pot calling the kettle black.

Apparently, you don't understand what that saying means. It mean that you're calling me a hypocrite. In reality (I know it's not your favorite place), I don't believe homosexuality is wrong, and my view on the matter has nothing at all to do with religion or the lack of it. I also don't spread lies or ignorance. I spread logic, reason and the truth.

But we get you though. You say whatever will make someone like you. As long as someone pats you on the back and say "good boy", you're all for it. That's why you're here. That's why you post. Nothing more. Nothing less. How sad it is.

Yeah, that's it.

It has nothing to do with the fact that I have to constantly correct you for living in your fantasy world. I see you decided to completely avoid the whole point of my post, not surprisingly. Again, you think it's bad due to your religion. That's fine, but we don't follow your religion. Making up other random, stupid rationalizations only hurts your cause.

 

[Magic Man]

Response: Sure. But having sex is through lust.

So, then heterosexuals shouldn't have sex, then? That's kind of weird. I didn't realize sex was only about lust. Silly me, I thought it was about love. Oh well.

 

[darkendless]

Response: Sure. But having sex is through lust.

But when you have sex with your heterosexual partner its not about lust is it? No, sex is about lust, because we're animals.... give me a break thats rediculous.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Autodidact]But you yourself told us that the qu'ran doesn't mention it. Were you mistaken? How can the qu'ran mention it as sin, if it doesn't mention it at all?(End quote)

Response: I never said that the qur'an doesn't mention it. I said it doesn't speak of it directly.

(Quote Autodidact)
Well, you say that it's lust, but since you've been caught lying twice in this thread alone, we won't take your word for it. Besides, how would you know?(End quote)

Response: Post 816 proves to the contrary.

(Quote Autididact)
My understanding is that your argument was that since lesbian sex is not reproductive, it must be sin. But since you agree that there is a third choice, love, it does not follow.(End Quote)

Response: No where have I said any such thing. Once again, thanks for confirming your inability to comprehend.

(Quote Autididact)
Your other argument is that it violates the qu'ran, but you yourself told us it's not mentioned in the qu'ran, so that can't be it.(End Quote)

Response: Quote the post in which I say it's not in the qur'an, if you are truthful.

(Quote Autididact)
I think you made another quite ridiculous argument that since you're heterosexual, everyone else must be also, but surely even you can see how absurd that is, so I don't bother with it.(End Quote)

Response: Your inability to show otherwise, plus when we look at your own proof in post 816 proves to the contrary.

(Quote Autididact)
So, on what basis do you argue that homosexual physical love must inherently be lust? Remember, when you answer, there are several here who have direct personal experience to the contrary. Speaking for myself, if I could never be physically intimate with V again I would still stay with her and love her, because for us the sex is about the love, not the other way around.(End Quote)

Response: Well, since you've clearly shown that you have no idea what naturally makes a woman sexually attract to another woman and not a man (post 816), you have no way of refuting my reason. So we must find out what it is that makes sexual attraction between the sexes and the difference in their nature. Since you say you can sexaually attract to a woman but not a man, you are obviously acknowledging that there is a difference in the nature between man and woman. That being said, we can solve this riddle by finding out what that difference is. So get ready, because the next steps to that understanding is heavy.

But first, since we are talking about love and lust, we need to understand and distinguish the difference. So I'm asking the question, what is love?

 

[Fatihah]

I'm sorry, not clear. Sin is what Allah prohibits in the qu'ran, or not? tx.

Response: Yes, sin is what Allah prohibits.

 

[Autodidact]

Again, you think it's bad due to your religion. That's fine, but we don't follow your religion. Making up other random, stupid rationalizations only hurts your cause.

Actually, it's not due to his religion that Fatihah thinks lesbianism is bad, since the qu'ran doesn't mention it, and I don't think Fatihah wants to put himself above God and claim to be able to create sins. In fact, it's his prejudice that Fatihah wants us to follow.

 

[Fatihah]

But we've alreadly established that sex can be an expression of love, have we not?

Response: Yes, we have. But not between homosexuals.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE mball1297]Apparently, you don't understand what that saying means. It mean that you're calling me a hypocrite. In reality (I know it's not your favorite place), I don't believe homosexuality is wrong, and my view on the matter has nothing at all to do with religion or the lack of it. I also don't spread lies or ignorance. I spread logic, reason and the truth.(End Quote)

Response: You spread logic, reason and truth? Not in this lifetime.
Not once in this forum. The fact that you think homosexuality isn't wrong contridicts your statement anyway.

(Quote mball1297)
Yeah, that's it.

It has nothing to do with the fact that I have to constantly correct you for living in your fantasy world. I see you decided to completely avoid the whole point of my post, not surprisingly. Again, you think it's bad due to your religion. That's fine, but we don't follow your religion. Making up other random, stupid rationalizations only hurts your cause.(End Quote)

Response: Likewise.

 

[Autodidact]

[QUOTE Autodidact]But you yourself told us that the qu'ran doesn't mention it. Were you mistaken? How can the qu'ran mention it as sin, if it doesn't mention it at all?(End quote)

Response: I never said that the qur'an doesn't mention it. I said it doesn't speak of it directly.

Well, what does the qur'an say about lesbianism indirectly?
(Quote Autodidact)
Well, you say that it's lust, but since you've been caught lying twice in this thread alone, we won't take your word for it. Besides, how would you know?(End quote)

Response: Post 816 proves to the contrary.

I's sorry, that post was utter gibberish to me. I literally have no idea what you were trying to say. Could you review exactly how that post proves that lesbianism is lust?

(Quote Autididact)
My understanding is that your argument was that since lesbian sex is not reproductive, it must be sin. But since you agree that there is a third choice, love, it does not follow.(End Quote)

Response: No where have I said any such thing. Once again, thanks for confirming your inability to comprehend.

So your argument for why all gay love is based on lust is...?

(Quote Autididact)

Your other argument is that it violates the qu'ran, but you yourself told us it's not mentioned in the qu'ran, so that can't be it.(End Quote)

Response: Quote the post in which I say it's not in the qur'an, if you are truthful.

Sure, no problem:

Originally Posted by Fatihah
Response: The qur'an does not speak directly about lesbianism

(Quote Autididact)
I think you made another quite ridiculous argument that since you're heterosexual, everyone else must be also, but surely even you can see how absurd that is, so I don't bother with it.(End Quote)

Response: Your inability to show otherwise, plus when we look at your own proof in post 816 proves to the contrary.

My proof of what? What was I trying to prove? What are you talking about? If you want to use that argument you'll have to rephrase it, because I didn't grasp what you were trying to say at all.

(Quote Autididact)
So, on what basis do you argue that homosexual physical love must inherently be lust? Remember, when you answer, there are several here who have direct personal experience to the contrary. Speaking for myself, if I could never be physically intimate with V again I would still stay with her and love her, because for us the sex is about the love, not the other way around.(End Quote)

Response: Well, since you've clearly shown that you have no idea what naturally makes a woman sexually attract to another woman and not a man (post 816), you have no way of refuting my reason.

You realize that these two concepts are not connected in any way, right? There is no logical connection between why a woman is a lesbian, and whether lesbianism is moral or immoral. I say it's because it is her nature to be. And therefore...what?

So we must find out what it is that makes sexual attraction between the sexes and the difference in their nature.

Not really.

Since you say you can sexaually attract to a woman but not a man, you are obviously acknowledging that there is a difference in the nature between man and woman.

Well, there's a difference in how they affect me, that's all that follows.

That being said, we can solve this riddle by finding out what that difference is. So get ready, because the next steps to that understanding is heavy.

No, it's pretty simple. Women are female, and men are male.

But first, since we are talking about love and lust, we need to understand and distinguish the difference. So I'm asking the question, what is love?

This is the love in Islam. No words can define it. It's something so enigmatic, that only Allah (swt) could design it and comprehends. Wonder of wonders. Beyond man's conception. And only in Allah, can love find true perfection. For love is enduring and patient and kind. It judges all things with the heart, not the mind. And love can transform the most commonplace into beauty and splendor and sweetness and grace. For love is unselfish, giving more than it takes, being unconditional and unhampered by environment. Love never forsakes, it's faithful and trusting, truthful. It is guileless and honest and never deceiving. Love is Allah's Divine Gift.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: Yes, we have. But not between homosexuals.

So you keep saying, but since you're a serial liar, you have to support your statement with evidence, logic, or both. Any time now.

 

[Autodidact]

Let me put it differently. A woman is a lesbian because she loves women. Therefore lesbianism is a form of love.

 

[Autodidact]

Hey, Fatihah: isn't lying a sin?

 

[Fatihah]

Actually, it's not due to his religion that Fatihah thinks lesbianism is bad, since the qu'ran doesn't mention it, and I don't think Fatihah wants to put himself above God and claim to be able to create sins. In fact, it's his prejudice that Fatihah wants us to follow.

Response: The qur'an does mention it. The bigger question is why you insist on condoning the idea of using a person intimately. How shameful can a person be? You wouldn't like to be raped would you? A rapist uses a person for their own pleasure, yet here you are as a homosexual doing the same. The only difference is no force.

You know what you do and you can pretend to portray differently if you want. Then the absurdity of acting like it's natural. You see, it's one thing to be illogical and absurd but it's another when not only are you extremely absurd but you flaunt it proudly as if you're right. That's when you've reached a conceit and absurd mindstate so thick that it would take a jackhammer to break it.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Autodidact]

Well, what does the qur'an say about lesbianism indirectly?(End quote)

Response: I've answered that already and showed you the verses. What part didn't you comprehend?

(Quote Autodidact)
I's sorry, that post was utter gibberish to me. I literally have no idea what you were trying to say. Could you review exactly how that post proves that lesbianism is lust?(End Quote)

Response: And what simple engish words do you have a problem comprehending in post 816?

(Quote Autididact)
So your argument for why all gay love is based on lust is...?(End Quote)

Response: The fact that it's unnatural. Since it's not natural, it's from your own desire, which is lust.


(Quote Autididact)
You realize that these two concepts are not connected in any way, right? There is no logical connection between why a woman is a lesbian, and whether lesbianism is moral or immoral. I say it's because it is her nature to be. And therefore...what? (End Quote)

Response: There is a connection. A woman is a lesbian because of lust and a sexual relationship based on lust is wrong and immoral.

 

[Fatihah]

So you keep saying, but since you're a serial liar, you have to support your statement with evidence, logic, or both. Any time now.

Response: Likewise.

 

[Fatihah]

Hey, Fatihah: isn't lying a sin?

Response: No. Lucky for you.

 

[Green Gaia]

Response: Which is lust. It's not love at all.

You're wrong. I know what is in my heart and you can't deny that.