• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is Jesus an avatar of Lord Vishnu?

kaisersose

Active Member
You were right, Madhuri. I did find the reference in Srimad Bhagvatam and the link is as below 10.2.18. It does say that the "transfer" of Lord Krishna from Vasudevji to Devkiji was through "manas" (mind).

Srimad Bhagavatam Canto 10 Chapter 2 Verse 18

Regards,

Thank you for the reference.

I agree it can be interpreted that way - in a simplistic sense. It does not say how Krishna went from her mind to her womb, and does not specifically say there was no sexual union in the process of these multi-point transfers (Krishna into Vasudeva's mind; from V's mind to Devaki's mind and finally from Devaki's mind to her womb). I checked the other verses in that chapter too.

It is upto the individual to decide how it happened.
 

kaisersose

Active Member
I don't see the importance of arguing if Jesus is a Historic figure or not.

It goes to credibility. If the person was bogus then what is the confidence in the teachings of the NT? On what basis does one accept them as having any value? Very few people claim experiences with the majority relying on authority of scripture or Jesus. Obviously to them, it would be important that there was a Jesus and the NT comes from him.

As for experiencing the divine, that is a completely different matter. One can only recognize something that is already known An individual in an African village will not have a vision of Rama (who he never heard of). An Indian from Mylapore is unlikely to have a vision of Mohammed or Jesus. The image that springs forth in the vision or the experience already has to be in memory for it to be recognized and to mean anything. It would be natural then for your inlaw to have a vision of Jesus and not of a foreign God.

In a similar case, a link to a chapter from the Bhagavatam (10.12) was posted on this thread today. There is a verse where Krishna lists a number of names of the mother Goddess on Earth, but all these names are from India! Though the mother Goddess is found in several other cultures by other names, these names were not known to the author and therefore he could not write about them.
 
Last edited:

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the reference.

I agree it can be interpreted that way - in a simplistic sense. It does not say how Krishna went from her mind to her womb, and does not specifically say there was no sexual union in the process of these multi-point transfers (Krishna into Vasudeva's mind; from V's mind to Devaki's mind and finally from Devaki's mind to her womb). I checked the other verses in that chapter too.

It is upto the individual to decide how it happened.



It is not uncommon for Sages and Avatars to be born in non-traditional ways:

-Sita came from the ground.
-Rama and his brothers came from the fire.
-Veda Vyasa's mom had a one day pregnancy.
-Balarama switched wombs
 

Wannabe Yogi

Well-Known Member
It goes to credibility. If the person was bogus then what is the confidence in the teachings of the NT? On what basis does one accept them as having any value? Very few people claim experiences with the majority relying on authority of scripture or Jesus. Obviously to them, it would be important that there was a Jesus and the NT comes from him.

That is one way of looking at it. I personaliy have very little interest in the exoteric side of religion. In the west it has only been used to repress people.

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
-Napoleon Bonaparte

As for experiencing the divine, that is a completely different matter. One can only recognize something that is already known An individual in an African village will not have a vision of Rama (who he never heard of). An Indian from Mylapore is unlikely to have a vision of Mohammed or Jesus. The image that springs forth in the vision or the experience already has to be in memory for it to be recognized and to mean anything. It would be natural then for your inlaw to have a vision of Jesus and not of a foreign God.

John Coltrane (One of the most importent musicion of the 20th century) had a vision of Ramakrishna that changed his life. It was only later did he find out who Ramakrishna was.

It is true that the divine speaks to us in ways we understand. Still there are exeptions to this rule.
 
Last edited:

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
It goes to credibility. If the person was bogus then what is the confidence in the teachings of the NT?

The confidence would come from whether or not the teachings can stand apart from the one who supposedly said them.

Obviously, many of the NT teachings cannot stand apart from an historical Jesus, and those teachings I, as a non-Christian, do not regard all that much. But the ones that can stand apart from an historical Jesus, like much of the SotM, I hold in high regard.
 

Satsangi

Active Member
As for experiencing the divine, that is a completely different matter. One can only recognize something that is already known An individual in an African village will not have a vision of Rama (who he never heard of). An Indian from Mylapore is unlikely to have a vision of Mohammed or Jesus. The image that springs forth in the vision or the experience already has to be in memory for it to be recognized and to mean anything. It would be natural then for your inlaw to have a vision of Jesus and not of a foreign God.

God is all pervading, beyond names and beyond any boundaries or cultures. There is a difference between "mental" or "psychic" phenomenon and "Atmic" phenomenon. You are confusing the two and hence your above interpretation.

Regards,
 

kaisersose

Active Member
God is all pervading, beyond names and beyond any boundaries or cultures. There is a difference between "mental" or "psychic" phenomenon and "Atmic" phenomenon. You are confusing the two and hence your above interpretation.

Regards,

You are right that I do not know/see a difference between the two. But the fact remains that one cannot recognize something unless the person already knows what it is.

There was an Indian movie named Lage Raho Munnabhai, a few years ago. Munna has visions of Gandhi and believes Gandh is actually appearing to him and is trying to teach him the right way of doing things. A doctor proves him wrong with a simple test. Rather than provide details here, I highly recommend watching the movie - which was actually quite good. Also, illustrates the reality behind visions.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
You are right that I do not know/see a difference between the two. But the fact remains that one cannot recognize something unless the person already knows what it is.

There was an Indian movie named Lage Raho Munnabhai, a few years ago. Munna has visions of Gandhi and believes Gandh is actually appearing to him and is trying to teach him the right way of doing things. A doctor proves him wrong with a simple test. Rather than provide details here, I highly recommend watching the movie - which was actually quite good. Also, illustrates the reality behind visions.

The fact that they can, and do, often operate much like the "magic" item that helps a child with self-confidence issues overcome a mental obstacle?

That's how I see them.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
As "God" is not a person "God" is power, similarly "Vishnu" is not a person "Vishnu" is also a power below than "God"

_/\_
Chinu.

I humbly disagree. Vishnu is a name of God. They are not separate entities.
 

chinu

chinu
I humbly disagree. Vishnu is a name of God. They are not separate entities.
Yes! Madhuri ji, You can disagree because on which base i can write here that i have seen them. :)

But ! can i say that am like your brother ? tell me,
_/\_
Chinu
 

allonehitman

New Member
this whole exchange of ideas has just right now in the moment brought me into my own true self realization which i have reached many times before only to see the fleeting understanding escape me. i hope this time i remember who I Am forever. peace and love and respect to all involved
 

EddyM

Member
All the incarnations that should be relevant to Hindus have been revealed in the Vedic scriptures. Jesus, Bahaullah, Gulam Mirza Ahmad, 7th century Muhammad... Hmmm... I wonder if Christians, Bahais, Ahmadiyyas and the rest of their fellow Muslims start having icons of Vishnu and worshipping them as God in their churches and mosques... oh wait yeah, instead come and ask Hindus whether they should divide and mix their God up with others.:rolleyes:
 
Jesus was more than likely an Avatar of Vishnu.
There is so much similarities between them that one cannot dismiss after deep studying.
Let's start from Birth and Childhood.

Both Jesus and Krishna was born with a Evil kings wanting to kill them.
On to childhood. Krishna was very mischievous as a child, always stealing Ghee, Milk and Butter and such mischiefs. While performing impossible miracles. When he was a kid he lifted an entire mountain on his finger, such miracles would only be in the power of God.
Now for Jesus. There exists a lost gospel called the "Infancy Gospel of Thomas" where his disciple Thomas writes according to stories of his childhood.
From a kid he performed miracles like one episode where he was by a river on the sabath with clay in his hands, molding in the shape of birds, while a man saw him and alerted Joseph, saying Jesus shouldn't be working on the sabath, while this was taking place Jesus clapped his hands and the birds came to life.
Another incident was where Jesus as a kid saw a woman with her dead baby in her arms crying and he went over to her and raised the baby from the dead.
The similarity here is that they both performed miracles as kids, and was very mischievous as a kid. Just look up the Infancy Gospel of Thomas and read for yourself.

Now to adulthood. One would say Jesus didn't teach much on vedic customs.
Infact he taught a bit more on Vedic customs than you might think.
While the counsell of Naicia was chosing from there many gospel books presented for the New Testament cannon, there were some gospels that managed to be sneaked away be sneaked away from the Romon empire and one in perticular made it's way to a Buddhist monistry to avoid corruption, and it's name is "the Gospel of the Holy twelve" or the "Essence Gospel of Peace" where it seems to almost be the same as Matthew, Mark Luke and John minus a few scenes. The Chapters are called Lectures because that's basically what they are. And in it, Jesus speaks mainly about Compassion to Animals and Vegetarianism. He teaches the spiritual implications of eating meat, which isn't in the Cannon put together by the Constantine.
Infact he didn't feed the multitude with Fish and Bread, rather he did so with 5 MELONS!
Not FISH, MELONS! After all, the all Merciful and Gracious Jesus Christ surly wouldn't eat Fish.

Let's go on now to later on. In Revelation in the Bible Jesus is said to return on a white horse with a Sword in his Mouth. While Kalki Avatar (VISHNU) will Return on a White Horse with a sword in his hand. ~KALKI PURANA.
Surly John of Patmos wouldn't have access to Kalki Purana.

And for who says the that "Jesus isn't in the Puranas" I have a question for you, was the Puanas written before Jesus or After? Becuase I don't know. However, tell me something. Who is the person in Bhavishya Purana 19:22.
Here's some help with finding that; youtube .com/watch?v=shpZ1eXmy-k&feature=youtu.be
However, you can say that here Jesus simply sounds like a Pure Devotee. But..
Jesus said that only through him will one attain paradise, while Krsna says only through meditating on him will one attain paradise. So who should we look to? BOTH! Because they are both the same, God came to earth in India for the Indian Culture, then he came again in Nepal for the Chinese and Northern Indian culture. And then in Jerusalem for the more Western culture.

One more similarity to look at is Buddha, who is said to be an Avatar.
Buddha walked on water, fead many people with small amounts of food, and did so many miracles similar to Jesus' own. So why is it that Buddha is an Avatar and Jesus isn't? If it was so easy to reach the level of Enlightenment that Buddha reached then how is it that Jesus who you guys would imply is a normal person be able the ONLY other person in history to be so similar in enlighenment? Yes there are Yogis that can walk on water and perform miracles but none are of the enlightenment level of Jesus and Buddha.

Jesus is God on earth in Kali Yuga.

The goal is Unity Consciousness. God is coming back as Kalki/Jesus not for a single religion, and not to judge one religion but not the other, rather he's coming to judge the righteousness of the people, and to rid the world of all this ignorance, all this foolishness of "my religion is the only way," only through my God will one inherit the kingdom.
There is no my God or your God. There is only one WORLD and one GOD.

I'm a a 16 Year old Christian who accepts All religions. And believes the only way to truth if your own seeking, not the teachings of tradition, your pastors, priets but your own seeking of truth, and if the truth is distorted, then like a puzzle, gather all the pieces "RELIGIOUS KNOWLEDGE" and there the truth will be clear.

Bless.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
While I do believe Jesus was an Avatar, I couldn't say of who. I'm not to comfortable calling him an Avatar of one of the Vedic Gods, since only a little of what he taught was Vedic in nature.

An empowered personality at best, an ordinary man at worst.

As a former Christian, to me he was of course God incarnate. As a Hindu now, I do not necessarily believe that, though I can't dismiss it out-of-hand. I don't have enough information from Hindu Scripture to back it up. However, I think Jesus was sent by God, but I don't know if or whom he is a representative or avatar of. So in that respect I concur with Riverwolf. I also concur with Madhuri. At the very least Jesus was an empowered and/or self-realized person; definitely a prophet in this sense:
In religion, a prophet, from the Greek word προφήτης profitis meaning "foreteller", is an individual who is claimed to have been contacted by the supernatural or the divine, and serves as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people.[1][2] The message that the prophet conveys is called a prophecy. - Prophet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I tend to think of Jesus's teachings as "Hinduism-Lite". It was aimed at the people of his time and region, as much as they could understand. He may have simply been influenced by Hindu philosophy, either by traveling to India, or being influenced by traders and explorers who traveled the Silk Road. There are, after all, 18 years missing from the records of Jesus's life.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Both Jesus and Krishna was born with a Evil kings wanting to kill them. ...

Let's go on now to later on. In Revelation in the Bible Jesus is said to return on a white horse with a Sword in his Mouth. While Kalki Avatar (VISHNU) will Return on a White Horse with a sword in his hand. ~KALKI PURANA.
Surly John of Patmos wouldn't have access to Kalki Purana.

Yes, those are eerily similar. But I don't think it impossible for writers in the Middle East to have been influenced, or learned of eastern religions via traders and explorers on the Silk Road, as I mentioned above.

However, you can say that here Jesus simply sounds like a Pure Devotee. But..
Jesus said that only through him will one attain paradise, while Krsna says only through meditating on him will one attain paradise. So who should we look to? BOTH! Because they are both the same, God came to earth in India for the Indian Culture, then he came again in Nepal for the Chinese and Northern Indian culture. And then in Jerusalem for the more Western culture.

My speculation also, stated above.

Jesus is God on earth in Kali Yuga.

Not impossible at all. Krishna left Earth in ~3102 BCE, which ended Dvapara Yuga and began Kali Yuga. Jesus appears ~3,000 years later during Kali Yuga.
 
Not impossible at all. Krishna left Earth in ~3102 BCE, which ended Dvapara Yuga and began Jesus appears ~3,000 years later during Kali Yuga.

Yes, and as we went deeper into Kali Yuga, the possiblilties of doing such miracles I believe fell.
After all, just check history, in biblical time, God's presence was on earth more, speaking to people, giving Moses the power to part the sea and much more.

As we go back in history to Vedic times, the scenes look more like "Mythology" but indeed it isn't mythology, simply the time before Kali Yuga. And as we continue into Kali Yuga and near the end now.
One can understand why even scholars would call the vedic times "Mythology."

So the point is, Jesus in Kali Yuga being able to do all these things is amazing. While it's understandable that God on earth before Kali Yuga as Krsna would be able to do such things like Lift Mountains ect...

Hope you understand where I'm going with this.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I think so. Probably the main reason we don't see the miracles and extraordinary occurrences of milennia past.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Well Hindus, what do you think? Is he?

No, he wasn't. But in my branch of SD, there are no avatars period, so its an easy one to answer. As far as I know, there is no early idea that consider him that way. Avatar is a pretty strong word, after all. Some people like to use it even today just to boast of their own Gurus.
 

kaisersose

Active Member
No, he wasn't. But in my branch of SD, there are no avatars period, so its an easy one to answer. As far as I know, there is no early idea that consider him that way. Avatar is a pretty strong word, after all. Some people like to use it even today just to boast of their own Gurus.

Exactly.

Avatars in India are a dime a dozen. Every successful Guru, becomes an avatar at some point.
 

kaisersose

Active Member
Yes, and as we went deeper into Kali Yuga, the possiblilties of doing such miracles I believe fell.

They did not "fall". It is just that people are better informed today than they were a thousand years ago, which makes it harder to fool them. A few hundred years ago, it would have been a simple job to get people to believe in the existence of 20 ft humans (in previous yugas), people who lived to be 10000 years old, sarees of infinite length, etc. While there still exist people who believe in such stories, their number is steadily dwindling.

After all, just check history, in biblical time, God's presence was on earth more, speaking to people, giving Moses the power to part the sea and much more.

None of this can be proven. It is the same with all miracle stories. They always happen in books or to someone else. When you try to go see one for yourself, you will get exactly nowhere. There is always an excuse offered for why you cannot witness it first hand.

As an example, Shankara (8th Century CE) says this in his Sutra Bhashya - "Just because miracles do not happen today does not mean they were not happening a long time years ago". Shankara in his own words says there are no miracles in his time. And yet, his biography written after him, has a number of miracles attributed to him - like changing the course of a river, bringing forth a shower of gold coins, etc. Clearly, these stories were written to show Shankara in a divine light, as an avatar of Shiva - to make his teaching more credible. This is true for all Gurus in India; their biographies (hagiographies actually) are full of miracles.
 
Top