Is Jesus Christ the True God?

[dybmh]

As for Catholics we worship the one God 'through and in the name of Jesus'.

There's a difference between "worshipping through Jesus" versus "worshipping Jesus".

Agreed. My question is, why?

If we believe in the same God, then we are all God's children. God loves all of us equally. God wants to be there for us, wants to answer our prayers, wants to be our savior. Why include Jesus? Why through Jesus?

I'm not wanting to debate or argue, I just want to understand, if that's possible.

The only explanation I can come up with on my own is: God doesn't want to be there for us, doesn't want to answer our prayers, doesn't want to be our savior, all of that is Jesus.

 

[samtonga43]

If we believe in the same God, then we are all God's children. God loves all of us equally. God wants to be there for us, wants to answer our prayers, wants to be our savior. Why include Jesus? Why through Jesus?

I believe that...
Jesus cannot be excluded. God is Triune.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I believe that...
Jesus cannot be excluded. God is Triune.

I also believe that "Jesus cannot be excluded", but in a different sense to you.

I do not believe that Jesus preached in the synagogues that he was God.
I do believe that the poor Jews of his time believed that he was a prophet .. a messiah .. "the King of the Jews".
Jesus therefore had authority on this basis, and those that deny such authority, effectively deny God.

A Jew must love God with all their heart, and they must love Moses too .. it is through Moses that we obtain Divine guidance.
If one denies Moses, they deny the guidance.

Similarly, if one denies Jesus, they deny the guidance that Jesus was given by God.

 

[pearl]

And as for Catholics, you are the ones who originated Trinitarian dogma. Of course you worship Jesus.

From the Eucharistic liturgy, the final doxology, “Through Him, with Him and in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever.”

 

[pearl]

If we believe in the same God, then we are all God's children. God loves all of us equally. God wants to be there for us, wants to answer our prayers, wants to be our savior. Why include Jesus? Why through Jesus?

“No one comes to the Father except through me.” (Jn 14:6)

 

[pearl]

You have the priest consecrate the host.

The priest does not actually consecrate the bread, but invokes the Holy Spirit who actually consecrates.

I believe you call it adoration.

This is not part of the Liturgy.

 

[Dogknox20]

and catholics do worship Jesus. You have the priest consecrate the host. You put the host in the monstrance. And you sit in front of it praying, singing, whatever. I believe you call it adoration. It's worship of a deity. Throughout the Mass, jesus is also worshiped in hymns and prayers.

"Catholics absolutely worship Jesus" Do Catholics Worship Jesus? - Catholic Truth

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IndigoChild5559 Right you are... Jesus is my God!
He is the true Manna come down from heaven!
49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

Genesis 3: 22
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat and live forever.”

"One of us".... Plural>>> More than one! <<< God cannot lie! God cannot mislead!

IndigoChild5559 The Catholic Church is a body of believers called "Christians" established by our God before he went back up to heaven!
The Church Jesus established is his very body! I am "In God" because I am in his Body!" God is "IN Me" because I eat his living forever flesh and drink his life!

IndigoChild5559 Jesus is our paschal sacrifice all paschal sacrifices must be eaten!

Romans 3:25
God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

1 Corinthians 5:7
Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

 

[Muffled]

I believe that Almighty God is guiding me, and accepts my sincerity.

On what do you base that belief?

 

[Dogknox20]

Sorry .. that is all hypocrisy, imo.

First, you say God is "the Father", and then you say that Jesus is God..
Does that mean that Jesus is the Father?

..and this creed was promoted by the Roman Empire, threatening "heretics" with death?
Is that "turning the other cheek"?

..no .. it's hypocrisy. Roman law cannot replace the law of God.
It is falsehood.

muhammad_isa God is my Father because I was "Immersed" baptized into his only Son! I am IN Jesus!
Christians are Christ Followers! The Anti-Christ is Anti-Christian!

Jesus is the Son of God because he was BORN as a Man! Until Jesus was born, he was "The Word"!
The Father is Spirit
The Word is Spirit
The Holy Spirit is Spirit!
God is Spirit!
God is "LOVE"!
God is Perfect!
Can't have perfect love by yourself... Love MUST be given to another to be perfect... Love that is not given is called Selfishness! God is NOT selfish!
God needed another person to love to have perfection. God's Love for the Word was Perfect love!

Mary is The Daughter of God the Father
Mary is The Spouse of God the Holy Spirit
Mary is The Mother of God the Son!

Luke 1:35
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

muhammad_isa The Word became Flesh... God' LOVE became man! (Read all five verses below) God creates all things that are good!
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Christians worship Jesus!

 

[Dogknox20]

On what do you base that belief?

 

[muhammad_isa]

On what do you base that belief?

The same as you, I assume.
Do you not think that you are sincere in your belief about the nature of God, and believing the Bible to be true guidance?

 

[Dogknox20]

Agreed. My question is, why?

If we believe in the same God, then we are all God's children. God loves all of us equally. God wants to be there for us, wants to answer our prayers, wants to be our savior. Why include Jesus? Why through Jesus?

I'm not wanting to debate or argue, I just want to understand, if that's possible.

The only explanation I can come up with on my own is: God doesn't want to be there for us, doesn't want to answer our prayers, doesn't want to be our savior, all of that is Jesus.

dybmh Good to meet you...
To be a Child of God you must be immersed into God "ONLY Son"! Until you are Immersed (Baptized) into Jesus you remain a Child of Adam!
Jesus is the Son of God because he was BORN as a Man! Until Jesus was born, he was "The Word"!
The Father is Spirit
The Word is Spirit
The Holy Spirit is Spirit!
God is Spirit!
God is "LOVE"!
God is Perfect!
John 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

dybmh Can't have perfect love by yourself... Love MUST be given to another to be perfect... Love that is not given is called Selfishness! God is NOT selfish!
God needed another person to love to have perfection. God's Love for the Word was thus Perfect love!

Mary is The Daughter of God the Father
Mary is The Spouse of God the Holy Spirit
Mary is The Mother of God the Son!

Luke 1:35
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Elizabeth is a Jew she is the wife of a high Priest! All good Jews Know beyond all doubt "God is One" One Lord!!
41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!
43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Mary is The Daughter of God the Father
Mary is The Spouse of God the Holy Spirit
Mary is The Mother of God the Son!

What a wonderful family of gods you have there.

 

[Dogknox20]

The same as you, I assume.
Do you not think that you are sincere in your belief about the nature of God, and believing the Bible to be true guidance?

Bible? The Quran is NOT the same as the bible!
You must reject the Bible to be Muslem! The god of the Muslem is a different God then the God of the Christian!

 

[metis]

and catholics do worship Jesus. You have the priest consecrate the host. You put the host in the monstrance. And you sit in front of it praying, singing, whatever. I believe you call it adoration. It's worship of a deity. Throughout the Mass, jesus is also worshiped in hymns and prayers.

"Catholics absolutely worship Jesus" Do Catholics Worship Jesus? - Catholic Truth

In the NT, which was written in Koine Greek and in an area quite Hellenized, what the authors did was to use Aristotle's and Plato's concept of "essence", and this is clearly applied to both Jesus' and the Holy Spirit's affiliation to God:
es·sence
[ˈesəns]
NOUN

1. the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, that determines its character:...

Thus, the belief was and is that both are intrinsic with God but are not exactly the same. After all, Jesus often prayed to God, thus it makes not one iota of sense to conclude that he was precisely God as that would have God praying to God.

Thus, the teaching is that we can pray through Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the saints. So, can we pray to Jesus? Yes, such as in the Rosary prayer to Jesus: "...pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, amen".

 

[metis]

Agreed. My question is, why?

If we believe in the same God, then we are all God's children. God loves all of us equally. God wants to be there for us, wants to answer our prayers, wants to be our savior. Why include Jesus? Why through Jesus?

Because the belief that Jesus has "God's ear" because of their closeness [essence]. Much like when I was a kid, my father was not a person of much empathy, thus we often had to go through our mother so as to talk him into getting us and ice cream, for a true example.

The only explanation I can come up with on my own is: God doesn't want to be there for us, doesn't want to answer our prayers, doesn't want to be our savior, all of that is Jesus.

During the mass, the vast majority of prayers are to God the Father directly.


BTW, I really don't pray in the conventional sense of the word as I use more a meditative process. But that's just me.

 

[Dogknox20]

What a wonderful family of gods you have there.

.
muhammad_isa right you are...
I am In God' holy Family! I am a Child of God because I was immersed into the body of God' ONLY Son! Christians have always believed Jesus is God!

Mary is the mother of Jesus thus Mary is also my mother because I am IN the body of Jesus! I was ADDED to Jesus' holy body by my Baptism.
Catholics have always Honored Mary Our Mother as Blessed! Catholics are IN Mary' family tree, in her generational history!
This is scripture prophesy...
46 And Mary said:
“My soul glorifies the Lord
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
48 for he has been mindful
of the humble state of his servant.
From now on all generations will call me blessed,
49 for the Mighty One has done great things for me—
holy is his name.
50 His mercy extends to those who fear him,
from generation to generation.

muhammad_isa the "From Now On" in this prophesy (above) sets a time when Christians will honor Mary as blessed! The Honor or Mary started the moment this prophesy was spoken! Catholics have Always honored Our Mother Mary as blessed! This prophesy cannot apply to the Muslim simply because they were not around for another 600 years! The Muslim is NOT in Mary' family, they are NOT part of her Generations! Mary is not the mother of the Muslim they do NOT believe the same as the Christian!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

From the Eucharistic liturgy, the final doxology, “Through Him, with Him and in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever.”

And how much of the rest of the Mass worships Jesus? How many hymns do you sing to him? Come on, I wasn't born yesterday.

 

[dybmh]

I believe that...
Jesus cannot be excluded. God is Triune.

If I understand what you're saying, this makes 100% sense to me. Praying to God is praying to God. The prayers don't need to "go through" anything. Did I get this correct?

 

[dybmh]

“No one comes to the Father except through me.” (Jn 14:6)

I'm aware of the verse, but it doesn't help too much with where I'm confused. Thank you none the less.