Is Jesus God?

[Muffled]

So, if Jesus was sent by God (meaning a human spirit was made by God and put into the body of a human being : the egg in Mary) how then do you say that Jesus IS GOD?

Afterall, the act of a spirit entering a human body (an egg of a woman) and animating it as a human being, is all of human being … except Adam, the first man, which, in that case, was exactly the same as Jesus: the spirit put into the inanimate human body was directly from God.

I believe you are incorrect. Jesus does not receive a human spirit He receives God who is Spirit.

I believe the creed says that the body is fully human but since it was created partially by God it does not have to be fully human only half human from Mary.

I believe I can say that because the presence of God residing in the body identifies Jesus as God.

I believe that is not even close to the same thing.

I believe Adam received a human spirit as all the rest of us have.

 

[Soapy]

I believe you are incorrect. Jesus does not receive a human spirit He receives God who is Spirit.

I believe the creed says that the body is fully human but since it was created partially by God it does not have to be fully human only half human from Mary.

I believe I can say that because the presence of God residing in the body identifies Jesus as God.

I believe that is not even close to the same thing.

I believe Adam received a human spirit as all the rest of us have.

Jesus does not receive a human spirit He receives God who is Spirit.… I believe that is not even close to the same thing.

Your words here quotes speak of your own failings of Christianity. Your own words betray you:
How is Jesus God if he is NOT GOD before he RECEIVES GOD…?

I believe Adam received a human spirit as all the rest of us have.

How are you claiming that Adam received a ‘Human’ Spirit as opposed to Jesus receiving a ‘GOD’ spirit?

The body of Adam (an inert body made from ‘dust of the earth’) was ENLIVENED by the overshadowing of the spirit of God.

The body of Jesus (the inert egg in Mary) was ENLIVENED by the overshadowing by the spirit of God.

I think you are confusing the birth of Jesus with the baptism (anointing) of Jesus WITH the spirit of God.

I notice that your argument falls apart absolutely and dramatically and attests to an incredulous failure of belief and understanding (which is normal for a trinitarian, I guess!) seeing that Jesus

• ‘Blew on them [the disciples] saying “Receive ye, the Holy Spirit”

and:

• said to them [the disciples], “Stay in Jerusalem until you receive the promise of the Father [the Holy Spirit]”

If ‘Receiving’ the spirit of God makes you ‘God’….!!??

 

[sojourner]

Was Jesus sent by God?

The Father sent the Son

 

[Soapy]

The Father sent the Son

That is true.

When did the Father (aka: God) ‘send’ the son?
Ref:

• “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him” (John 3:27)
  
• “This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him” (1 John 4:9)
  
• “Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” (John 20:21)
• “Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father,” (John 6:57)
• “Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.” (John 17:3)

 

[Muffled]

Your words here quotes speak of your own failings of Christianity. Your own words betray you:
How is Jesus God if he is NOT GOD before he RECEIVES GOD…?



How are you claiming that Adam received a ‘Human’ Spirit as opposed to Jesus receiving a ‘GOD’ spirit?

The body of Adam (an inert body made from ‘dust of the earth’) was ENLIVENED by the overshadowing of the spirit of God.

The body of Jesus (the inert egg in Mary) was ENLIVENED by the overshadowing by the spirit of God.

I think you are confusing the birth of Jesus with the baptism (anointing) of Jesus WITH the spirit of God.

I notice that your argument falls apart absolutely and dramatically and attests to an incredulous failure of belief and understanding (which is normal for a trinitarian, I guess!) seeing that Jesus

• ‘Blew on them [the disciples] saying “Receive ye, the Holy Spirit”

and:

• said to them [the disciples], “Stay in Jerusalem until you receive the promise of the Father [the Holy Spirit]”

If ‘Receiving’ the spirit of God makes you ‘God’….!!??

I believe He receives God when He is conceived. Before that He does not exist.

Gen. 2:7 ...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, ... I believe there is no mention of an overshadowing.

I believe a conception is already alive and does not need to be enlivened. I believe the word overshadow is used to try to convey what it means to have God connected to the body.

I believe I am not doing that. The event of the Holy Spirit manifesting at the baptism of Jesus is not to produce the Holy Spirit in Jesus but to display what is already there.

I believe you can claim that but you can't back it up.

I believe the answer is yes it does make the believer God but not to the extent of Jesus. God always manifested Himself in Jesus but He does not always manifest Himself in the believer because the believer is allowed to run his own life to some extent.

 

[Soapy]

I believe He receives God when He is conceived. Before that He does not exist.

Gen. 2:7 ...breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, ... I believe there is no mention of an overshadowing.

I believe a conception is already alive and does not need to be enlivened. I believe the word overshadow is used to try to convey what it means to have God connected to the body.

I believe I am not doing that. The event of the Holy Spirit manifesting at the baptism of Jesus is not to produce the Holy Spirit in Jesus but to display what is already there.

I believe you can claim that but you can't back it up.

I believe the answer is yes it does make the believer God but not to the extent of Jesus. God always manifested Himself in Jesus but He does not always manifest Himself in the believer because the believer is allowed to run his own life to some extent.

I believe you are mistaken in your belief. And it is obvious that none of what you said makes any sense.

Perhaps you are trying too hard to find a way around the truth and this is the best you can manage. I’m sure when you rethink it over you will assure yourself that you were way far out on a limb - and the limb has just snapped!

Desperation is not a good way to express a belief… and I bet no church would ever uphold anything yoh just said since it would immediately see the flaws and anticipate the embarrassment if would face if it ever did express such views publicly (perhaps it dies so in secret among its congregation and demand the congregation do not discuss the matter with anyone outside of the church - an esoteric teaching!)

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

We are taught FOUR times in teh Tanakh (OT) that God is not a man, FOUR TIMES, so obviously it is an important teaching.
“God is not a man… or a son of man”- Num. 23:19;
“… For he is not a man, that he should repent”-1 Sam. 15:29
“He is not a mere mortal like me that I might answer him, that we might confront each other in court." Job 9:32
"For I am God, and not a man— the Holy One among you." Hosea 11:9

The idea of Jesus as deity has rooms in Greek thought, where mythology has gods taking the form of humans, and interbreeding with humans. It is essentially a pagan concept that Christianity co-opted when gentiles began to convert.

 

[Soapy]

We are taught FOUR times in teh Tanakh (OT) that God is not a man, FOUR TIMES, so obviously it is an important teaching.
“God is not a man… or a son of man”- Num. 23:19;
“… For he is not a man, that he should repent”-1 Sam. 15:29
“He is not a mere mortal like me that I might answer him, that we might confront each other in court." Job 9:32
"For I am God, and not a man— the Holy One among you." Hosea 11:9

The idea of Jesus as deity has rooms in Greek thought, where mythology has gods taking the form of humans, and interbreeding with humans. It is essentially a pagan concept that Christianity co-opted when gentiles began to convert.

I expound absolutely the same idea you just put in this post. Converting people of pagan belief to the Christian one-God belief was far easier if the converter allowed the pagan multi-God to be part of the Christian belief.

How can ONE GOD be responsible for all things, says the pagan!!
Well, what if he was three, says the x-christian.
Ah, yes, sounds good to me - I’m in, says the new x-christian!!!

 

[Muffled]

I believe you are mistaken in your belief. And it is obvious that none of what you said makes any sense.

Perhaps you are trying too hard to find a way around the truth and this is the best you can manage. I’m sure when you rethink it over you will assure yourself that you were way far out on a limb - and the limb has just snapped!

Desperation is not a good way to express a belief… and I bet no church would ever uphold anything yoh just said since it would immediately see the flaws and anticipate the embarrassment if would face if it ever did express such views publicly (perhaps it dies so in secret among its congregation and demand the congregation do not discuss the matter with anyone outside of the church - an esoteric teaching!)

I believe of course you do and i believe you are mistaken and it is obvious that none of what you say makes any sense.

I believe everything I say comes directly from Jesus and He does not make mistakes.

I believe you should take note of that.

I believe all churches are in error and not in harmony with the words of Jesus so it doesn't bother me a bit because I am in harmony with Jesus.

I believe i have on Facebook and well meaning people disagree with me but that does not change the truth.

I believe I was told by one church that I should not speak about religion to church members. The view was that church leaders were the authority on doctrine and whatever the Bible said didn't matter.

 

[Muffled]

We are taught FOUR times in teh Tanakh (OT) that God is not a man, FOUR TIMES, so obviously it is an important teaching.
“God is not a man… or a son of man”- Num. 23:19;
“… For he is not a man, that he should repent”-1 Sam. 15:29
“He is not a mere mortal like me that I might answer him, that we might confront each other in court." Job 9:32
"For I am God, and not a man— the Holy One among you." Hosea 11:9

The idea of Jesus as deity has rooms in Greek thought, where mythology has gods taking the form of humans, and interbreeding with humans. It is essentially a pagan concept that Christianity co-opted when gentiles began to convert.

I believe that is correct. God is not a man. Jesus was God in the Flesh.

I believe Jesus as deity is NT word from God.

I believe there is no evidence that Christianity introduced pagan concepts into the NT.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe everything I say comes directly from Jesus and He does not make mistakes.

Are you hearing the voice of Jesus?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe that is correct. God is not a man. Jesus was God in the Flesh.

These two statements are contradictory. You cannot rationally believe in both.

 

[Soapy]

I believe of course you do and i believe you are mistaken and it is obvious that none of what you say makes any sense.

I believe everything I say comes directly from Jesus and He does not make mistakes.

I believe you should take note of that.

I believe all churches are in error and not in harmony with the words of Jesus so it doesn't bother me a bit because I am in harmony with Jesus.

I believe i have on Facebook and well meaning people disagree with me but that does not change the truth.

I believe I was told by one church that I should not speak about religion to church members. The view was that church leaders were the authority on doctrine and whatever the Bible said didn't matter.

Sorry, those are problems you have to deal with yourself.

The part about getting your info direct from Jesus… Perhaps you should consider that Jesus does not present personal revelations because all his spiritual presence is among his spiritual congregation which is a mass of godly people. If you feel that you are receiving personal then it’s not from Jesus Christ… but Satan disguised as a heavenly being: A a false light (Light = Revelation):

• “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.” (Matt 7:15~…)
• “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 John 4:1)

Beware the false prophet and the false dream - Satan knows who has weakness and personal desires for such things and he will feed you with them.

 

[Muffled]

Are you hearing the voice of Jesus?

I believe He is speaking through me. But, yes. I do hear Him also.

 

[Muffled]

These two statements are contradictory. You cannot rationally believe in both.

I believe you need to recognize the difference between essence and what God does. God in essence is Spirit but God does reside in Jesus and in believers.

 

[Muffled]

Sorry, those are problems you have to deal with yourself.

The part about getting your info direct from Jesus… Perhaps you should consider that Jesus does not present personal revelations because all his spiritual presence is among his spiritual congregation which is a mass of godly people. If you feel that you are receiving personal then it’s not from Jesus Christ… but Satan disguised as a heavenly being: A a false light (Light = Revelation):

• “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.” (Matt 7:15~…)
• “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 John 4:1)

Beware the false prophet and the false dream - Satan knows who has weakness and personal desires for such things and he will feed you with them.

I believe you have no understanding of what the Bible says which is why you can make such mistaken claims.
Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe He is speaking through me. But, yes. I do hear Him also.

Do you hear him in your inner dialogue, or do you actually hear an auditory voice?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe you need to recognize the difference between essence and what God does. God in essence is Spirit but God does reside in Jesus and in believers.

No, it is a simple matter of you stating two opposites. Saying God came in the flesh is simply a way of saying that he became a man. You cannot say that God is not a man and say that he became a man at the same time. It is a contradiction, mutually exclusive.

 

[Soapy]

I believe you need to recognize the difference between essence and what God does. God in essence is Spirit but God does reside in Jesus and in believers.

The POWER of God resides in Jesus and in true believers. The POWER of God is GOD’s holy Spirit and that is why those who are blessed with the power of God must humble themselves - even unto death - in the dissemination of that power and usd it only such that it glorifies GOD, who gave it to them!

 

[Soapy]

I believe you have no understanding of what the Bible says which is why you can make such mistaken claims.
Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

I believe you are speaking in pain about yourself.