Is Jesus God?

[Muffled]

Do you hear him in your inner dialogue, or do you actually hear an auditory voice?

I believe it is inner dialogue. It helps if I am spiritually attuned but these days I am more in tune than out.

 

[Muffled]

No, it is a simple matter of you stating two opposites. Saying God came in the flesh is simply a way of saying that he became a man. You cannot say that God is not a man and say that he became a man at the same time. It is a contradiction, mutually exclusive.

I believe the Spirit can't become flesh. It can only reside in it. God does not become a man by residing in one. Take me for instance. My spirit resided once in a woman but now is in a man. Can you say i became either of those? I believe not. I believe I remain as a spirit.

 

[Muffled]

The POWER of God resides in Jesus and in true believers. The POWER of God is GOD’s holy Spirit and that is why those who are blessed with the power of God must humble themselves - even unto death - in the dissemination of that power and usd it only such that it glorifies GOD, who gave it to them!

I believe you are in error. The power of God is not separable from God. God is Spirit but His Spirit is not essentially power but is essentially intelligence.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe it is inner dialogue. It helps if I am spiritually attuned but these days I am more in tune than out.

And how do you discern when it is God speaking to you and when it is your own natural inner dialogue, you talking to yourself?

 

[Soapy]

I believe you are in error. The power of God is not separable from God. God is Spirit but His Spirit is not essentially power but is essentially intelligence.

No one’s SPIRIT is ‘separable’ from its person. That suggestion from you is purposely misleading. The point I made is that anyone can ‘SEND’ their spirit into the hearts of another. It’s called ‘INSPIRING’. The spirit of one influences the spirit of another if the second allows the first to do so. When you do bad things it’s because you allow the SPIRIT OF SATAN to influence your Spirit. This is how it’s said that ‘Satan has sent his spirit into your heart’.

Sending your spirit is NOT A PHYSICAL phenomena, which is what you deceptively tried to insinuate. In that respect I see that you are knowingly posting incorrect statements - and if you claim you are posting in holiness then you most certainly are ‘Grieving the Spirit of God’ (which is the Spirit of truth!)

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Is Jesus God?

Who told you, please?
Jesus never claimed to be Almighty-God, did he, please?
If yes, then kindly quote for the claim and the reason given from (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah. Right?
Why should Jesus have made such a silly claim when the Jewish people were not waiting for a Messiah-god, never, as I understand, please? Right?

The Bible says so.

First a straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous claim should be made by (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah together with gist of reasonable argument from him, others cannot claim for him, please, right?

Regards

 

[Soapy]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Is Jesus God?

Who told you, please?
Jesus never claimed to be Almighty-God, did he, please?
If yes, then kindly quote for the claim and the reason given from (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah. Right?
Why should Jesus have made such a silly claim when the Jewish people were not waiting for a Messiah-god, never, as I understand, please? Right?

First a straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous claim should be made by (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah together with gist of reasonable argument from him, others cannot claim for him, please, right?

Regards

True. Jesus never made a blasphemous claim to be Almighty God. He always stated that he was the Son of God or the Son of man.

Son of God means ‘He who does the works of God’. It is not a reference to a procreated offspring. Jesus showed this when he spoke to the Jews who accused him of claiming to be [a] God because he said that ‘God is my Father’. It is pagan to claim that you are a procreated offspring of an ethereal spirit person. Jesus presented himself as a ‘Spiritual’ Son, saying:

• “If I am not doing the works of my Father then do not believe me!”

The scriptures qualifies thus saying,:

• “All who are led by the spirit of God are children of God’… which is the same thing

Jesus also said:

• “My Will is to do the Will of he who sent me!”
• “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
  
• “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.“
  
• “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

There are two independent persons: The sender and the sent. At no time does the sender claim to be the sent / nor does the dent ever claim to be the sender.
Indeed, Jesus sets his Will to be the same as his Father, and God. If Jesus were already God then how does he have to change his Will to be the same as another Being?

 

[paarsurrey]

True. Jesus never made a blasphemous claim to be Almighty God. He always stated that he was the Son of God or the Son of man.

Son of God means ‘He who does the works of God’. It is not a reference to a procreated offspring. Jesus showed this when he spoke to the Jews who accused him of claiming to be [a] God because he said that ‘God is my Father’. It is pagan to claim that you are a procreated offspring of an ethereal spirit person. Jesus presented himself as a ‘Spiritual’ Son, saying:

• “If I am not doing the works of my Father then do not believe me!”

The scriptures qualifies thus saying,:

• “All who are led by the spirit of God are children of God’… which is the same thing

Jesus also said:

• “My Will is to do the Will of he who sent me!”
• “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
  
• “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.“
  
• “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

There are two independent persons: The sender and the sent. At no time does the sender claim to be the sent / nor does the dent ever claim to be the sender.
Indeed, Jesus sets his Will to be the same as his Father, and God. If Jesus were already God then how does he have to change his Will to be the same as another Being?

What "Christian" denomination what belongs to, please?

Regards

 

[Soapy]

What "Christian" denomination what belongs to, please?

Regards

If you are asking what Christian denomination I belong to then the answer is ‘None’.

I believe in the whole truth. No current Christian denomination tells the whole truth. Each has truths but also each gets much wrong. Jesus pointed this out when he referred to the sample churches : the seven churches of Asia Minor. Each church, he pointed out, had errors and problems with their presentation and management. And do it is with the Christian denominations throughout history: the Catholic church’s being the worst - those blowing hot and cold ::: being Luke warm ::: are the worst churches.

As you may have found out, discussing the scriptures with those who claim a trinity, these come out of the Catholic faith but not as profoundly bad as the full Catholicism belief.

If you listen carefully, these non-Catholic Trinitarians claim by their writing that Jesus is God - but not by their congregational worship… here, they call Jesus, ‘Lord’ and the Father, ‘God’… mostly! But to keep up appearances they many times confuse the two; start off praising Jesus, but then call the person ‘God’… They confuse themselves but their congregation (like the Catholics) is not allowed to question the confuscation! If any does, rather than clear it up, the church leader throws them out calling them “Anti-Christ”. Of course, the real reason is because they cannot clear up the anomaly.

Ask them why they celebrate ‘Christmas’… then ask why they celebrate ‘Easter’… Jesus didn’t die, they say… Jesus wasn’t born, they say… but they still say that God was born as a baby and God … didn’t die - but Jesus is God!!! …. Yep, I was confused as his to even wrote that up - it’s mad!!!

 

[paarsurrey]

If you are asking what Christian denomination I belong to then the answer is ‘None’.

I believe in the whole truth. No current Christian denomination tells the whole truth. Each has truths but also each gets much wrong. Jesus pointed this out when he referred to the sample churches : the seven churches of Asia Minor. Each church, he pointed out, had errors and problems with their presentation and management. And do it is with the Christian denominations throughout history: the Catholic church’s being the worst - those blowing hot and cold ::: being Luke warm ::: are the worst churches.

As you may have found out, discussing the scriptures with those who claim a trinity, these come out of the Catholic faith but not as profoundly bad as the full Catholicism belief.

If you listen carefully, these non-Catholic Trinitarians claim by their writing that Jesus is God - but not by their congregational worship… here, they call Jesus, ‘Lord’ and the Father, ‘God’… mostly! But to keep up appearances they many times confuse the two; start off praising Jesus, but then call the person ‘God’… They confuse themselves but their congregation (like the Catholics) is not allowed to question the confuscation! If any does, rather than clear it up, the church leader throws them out calling them “Anti-Christ”. Of course, the real reason is because they cannot clear up the anomaly.

Ask them why they celebrate ‘Christmas’… then ask why they celebrate ‘Easter’… Jesus didn’t die, they say… Jesus wasn’t born, they say… but they still say that God was born as a baby and God … didn’t die - but Jesus is God!!! …. Yep, I was confused as his to even wrote that up - it’s mad!!!

What methodology has one adopted to find truth among 45000+ Hellenist Pauline "Christendom" (including JWs and the LDS, please? Right?

Regards

 

[Soapy]

What methodology has one adopted to find truth among 45000+ Hellenist Pauline "Christendom" (including JWs and the LDS, please? Right?

Regards

I just look for the truth. I don’t take a category of Christian belief specially since there are many errors in all of them.

One way to illustrate the problem and solution is to think of sets of marbles (could be sets of anything!) placed separately in containers. Each marble in a set is exactly alike but different from those in other sets.

That is truth: Each marble in a set shows the same ‘value’, ‘character’, ‘size’, ‘colour’ as the others but might be different pattern inside. This way you know which marble belongs in which container.

Now, some malicious individual comes along and mixes up some of the marbles from different containers and replaces some marbles but only with those that look similar so that a casual glance or under certain lighting conditions confuses them with the true marbles in the container

(((you know, like replacing a birds egg with an egg of a similar shape and colouring … does the mother bird recognise that there is a rogue egg in her nest? Most likely only after the egg has hatched and the chick behaves differently - but by then she is committed to feeding this rogue chick even though it causes her excessively harder work feeding it - and her other chicks seem to have ‘accidentally’ fallen out the nest to their death!)))

So, each container should represent a truth of God and his word. But now there are discrepancies in each container. The ‘Christendom’ view is to now believe what is seen in each container without regard to the fact that there is something wrong. Keep feeding the congregation with the possible false truth from the containers because it makes their church ‘FAT’ and hungry for this false truth. (The church prides itself on the growing size of its believing congregation and the money it brings in to make it rich!)

False marbles are seen but refused to be replaced in their proper container or removed altogether. Some viewers even visually decline to identify the false ones since their friends wouldn’t like them as it would cause disagreements between them.

Of course, the reality and truth is that these false marbles should be replaced in their correct containers or removed altogether. But how to do that?

Solution: Identify the characteristics, the size, the colours, etc., under correct non-discriminating lighting!

Here are some examples:

The container which expresses ‘Son of God’ has the ‘Jesus’ marble taken out and put in the ‘God’ container. What are the characteristics of a ‘Son of God’?

Well, a ‘Holy Angel’ is a spirit being who is shown to be a ‘Son of God’. This is agreed upon at least.

An holy angel is a ‘servant’ of God…

An holy angel does wholeheartedly and completely what God commands, orders, directs, shows… it to do.

The Will of the holy Angel is to do the Will of God.

But not only holy angels. Scriptures says of some of the Jews: ‘You are sons of your Father, Satan’ (John 8:41). For sure we know that Satan did not ‘Father’ human beings. So it is a ‘spiritual Son’ that is referred to. Jesus equally claimed that ‘God is my Father’ - a spiritual Father.

So the Jesus marble is in the wrong container.

Point of fact, the Jesus marble should be in the ‘Jesus is man’ container swing that in the previous verse shown Jesus describes HIMSELF as being a man: ‘As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God“ (John 8:40) and again at John 10:36: “what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?”.

And we also see the apostles stating the same fact: “For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,” (1 Tim 2:5).

But just what are the markings, etc., that claim Jesus is God? ….. under what lighting is this shown…. Black violet lighting, for sure… not natural eye lighting! In other words: None!

Im going on too much. I hope you can see what I’m saying to you: basically, find the right container for each marble of truth; Ditch the false marbles; view all through natural lighting (the light of truth): “But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light.” (Eph 5:13)

“Be very careful, then, how you [Believe]—not as unwise but as wise,” (Eph 5:15) (word changed: ‘Live / Believe’ for my emphasis!)

 

[Soapy]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

You are right to question what you heard because the whole premise is silly.

If it is weirdly true that Jesus is God - and the Father is God - and the Holy Spirit is God - then it cannot be said that ‘Everything was done by Jesus…’

It would have to be said that ‘Everything was done by God’ … and left at that since no act could be attributed to any one individual person of the so-called ‘trinity’.

But even so, it is clear that all verses that APPEAR to claim that Jesus did anything are FAKED!

Let’s start at the main character: Jesus. Jesus NEVER claimed to have created anything … ever!!

Next, the Father never claimed that Jesus created anything… ever!

And since the holy spirit is the spirit of the Father, what goes for the Father goes for His spirit: there is no revelation of Jesus creating anything …ever!

And soon to the so-called ‘proof verses’. … there are none!!

Oh, you mean like: GOD (three persons by trinity) said: ‘Let us make man!…in our image’

Well, what is that ‘image’ - indeed, what is ‘Image of God’. If trinity is true then man is made as ‘trinity God’ with THREE PERSONS as himself…. Really???

But sensible persons will know that GOD was speaking to the angels - and the one later called ‘[The] Satan’. The ‘image’ referred to is, of course, traits and characteristics such as: Love; wisdom; vanity; nurture; husbandry; pleasure; benevolence; forgiveness; desire; fortitude; inventiveness, design, mastership, creativity, ….’. And check this: does scriptures not say that:

• man is made ‘a little lower than the angels’ (At the present time)

Well, those who are going to argue that angels don’t possess those traits and characteristics outlined above, will need to justify how man has these yet angeks, who are made higher than man (for the present) has them yet is lower…. Hmmmm…. Problem, problem, problem!!!

But, what is hard about creating a body of a man. Is that hard for an angel? Absolutely not!! BUT the angel cannot create a SPIRIT to put into the body to animate it. This is why the scriptures says: ‘And GOD put a spirit into the man and he became a LIVING SOUL’. Did the renegade angels not make bodies for themselves, put themselves into those bodies (angels are Spirits) and then impregnate human females to create the Nephilims?

So, another ‘Jesus created’ fake dispelled!!

Want more? Send me a ‘proof of Jesus made..’ and I’ll show you the fakery of it!!!

 

[Muffled]

And how do you discern when it is God speaking to you and when it is your own natural inner dialogue, you talking to yourself?

I believe I have come to know the voices from years of practice.

 

[Muffled]

No one’s SPIRIT is ‘separable’ from its person. That suggestion from you is purposely misleading. The point I made is that anyone can ‘SEND’ their spirit into the hearts of another. It’s called ‘INSPIRING’. The spirit of one influences the spirit of another if the second allows the first to do so. When you do bad things it’s because you allow the SPIRIT OF SATAN to influence your Spirit. This is how it’s said that ‘Satan has sent his spirit into your heart’.

Sending your spirit is NOT A PHYSICAL phenomena, which is what you deceptively tried to insinuate. In that respect I see that you are knowingly posting incorrect statements - and if you claim you are posting in holiness then you most certainly are ‘Grieving the Spirit of God’ (which is the Spirit of truth!)

I believe I never mislead.

I believe you have no evidence for that. You are just speculating.

I believe I am telling the truth as God reveals it to me.

I believe that is a lie of Satan.

I believe that can be done but I would never call it a sending. I believe an inspiration is an idea that can be transmitted but a physical thing has to be sent.

I believe that is a rare thing. I believe most of the time the lies of Satan come to us from other people and from the bad things we have learned in the past.

I believe I have never heard that expression and it is incorrect. An idea can't be sent it has to be transmitted. Also the heart can choose to receive it or deny it. It is not helpless as you make it sound.

 

[Muffled]

paarsurrey said: ↑
Is Jesus God?

Who told you, please?
Jesus never claimed to be Almighty-God, did he, please?
If yes, then kindly quote for the claim and the reason given from (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah. Right?
Why should Jesus have made such a silly claim when the Jewish people were not waiting for a Messiah-god, never, as I understand, please? Right?

First a straightforward, unequivocal and unambiguous claim should be made by (Jesus) Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah together with gist of reasonable argument from him, others cannot claim for him, please, right?

Regards

I believe that would Be God Himself as the Father and the Son through the Paraclete.

I believe your statement is false.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

I believe calling God silly is blasphemy. The Jewish people had many false beliefs and misconceptions but the information is there in the Tenach.

I believe the claim seemingly coming from others actually comes from Him through the Paraclete.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe I have come to know the voices from years of practice.

I sincerely doubt that.

 

[Firenze]

True. Jesus never made a blasphemous claim to be Almighty God. He always stated that he was the Son of God or the Son of man.

Son of God means ‘He who does the works of God’. It is not a reference to a procreated offspring. Jesus showed this when he spoke to the Jews who accused him of claiming to be [a] God because he said that ‘God is my Father’. It is pagan to claim that you are a procreated offspring of an ethereal spirit person. Jesus presented himself as a ‘Spiritual’ Son, saying:

• “If I am not doing the works of my Father then do not believe me!”

The scriptures qualifies thus saying,:

• “All who are led by the spirit of God are children of God’… which is the same thing

Jesus also said:

• “My Will is to do the Will of he who sent me!”
• “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
  
• “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.“
  
• “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”

There are two independent persons: The sender and the sent. At no time does the sender claim to be the sent / nor does the dent ever claim to be the sender.
Indeed, Jesus sets his Will to be the same as his Father, and God. If Jesus were already God then how does he have to change his Will to be the same as another Being?

Well, there are a few billion Christians that disagree with you, as do most NT scholars. Regardless, if he was 'just' the son of a god, that confers divinity upon him - which means he could not be the Messiah, just as the Jewish experts on Messianic prophesy stated. Christianity fails because of this.

 

[Soapy]

I believe I never mislead.

I believe you have no evidence for that. You are just speculating.

I believe I am telling the truth as God reveals it to me.

I believe that is a lie of Satan.

I believe that can be done but I would never call it a sending. I believe an inspiration is an idea that can be transmitted but a physical thing has to be sent.

I believe that is a rare thing. I believe most of the time the lies of Satan come to us from other people and from the bad things we have learned in the past.

I believe I have never heard that expression and it is incorrect. An idea can't be sent it has to be transmitted. Also the heart can choose to receive it or deny it. It is not helpless as you make it sound.

What us the difference between ‘Transmitted’ and ‘Sent’?

Also, if Satan influences one person (‘s spirit) to influence another person (‘s spirit) you then absolve Satan of the original influence?

 

[Soapy]

Well, there are a few billion Christians that disagree with you, as do most NT scholars. Regardless, if he was 'just' the son of a god, that confers divinity upon him - which means he could not be the Messiah, just as the Jewish experts on Messianic prophesy stated. Christianity fails because of this.

No no no! ‘Son of God’ is not an ATTRIBUTE.

‘Son of God’ is a TITLE…..!!

This title means that the entity on which it is conferred is:

• “Doing the works of God”

Currently only Jesus Christ and HOLY ANGELS are ‘Sons of God’.

Jesus is the only ‘HUMAN SON OF GOD’.

Holy Angels are ‘SPIRIT SONS OF GOD’.

I would greatly suggest to you that using an argument about percentage of believers, pertaining to Christian belief, is a very bad argument.

Consider that the MASS MAJORITY of Christian believers used to believe that the Earth was the centre of the solar system….

Consider that the MASS MAJORITY of trinitarian Christian believers think that YHWH is three people…

Consider that the MASS MAJORITY of trinitarian Christian believers cannot answer simple questions about their belief honestly…

Consider that….. Scriptures says that it is the MASS MAJORITY (those on the broad road) who are travelling in the wrong direction - towards DESTRUCTION!

 

[1213]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not...

I don't think Bible agrees with it, because it is said:

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

I believe what the Bible tells.