Brother Yoshua. Yes I know the attributes Jesus had. You mean his divine attributes right? Yes I do.
But he also has other attributes, but you will say "well he was human". Like "Jesus wept", "Jesus thirst" etc. For that the general answer is "God was in human form". But then, why do you talk of Godly attributes when he was in human form? Was he God or not? If God became a human, would he weep? He is the everknowing, the creator.
Hi firedragon,
I believed Jesus' nature is divine in nature and human. Son of Man and Son of God. I based my belief with the Holy Scriptures. In Philippians 2:6-8,
6. who, although He existed in the
form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7. but emptied Himself, taking the
form of a bond-servant, and being made in the
likeness of men.
8. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Yes, He is the Creator, God. God exists in the person of Christ to save people form their sins. The incarnation was transpired by the Spirit of God to Mary.
Fell down and worship does not make a person a God. That is why I said that there were many who were worshipped like that in the bible. Everyone must be God then.
This is why I showed you several verses (before) pertaining to the
fell down and
worship. The emphasis of
worship for Jesus is much more than the ordinary bowing down or respect. We cannot conclude that everybody is God. As I told you, first is Jesus’ attributes which men in the Bible don’t have. Second, the emphasis of worship for Jesus differed from others.
So your point is, again, that Thomas said to Jesus "My God" and that makes Jesus God. Thats an exclamation. A third party exclamation. Your salvation relies on this kind of third party utterences! Bro, speak to a scholar in the NT, they will not use this quote to prove Jesus is God. You will see preachers and layman apologists using this.
God Himself, YHWH himself calls Moses Elohim. Even that doesnt make anyone else God.
Did the exclamation point express wrong confession for Jesus? Absolutely not!
First, check the narratives, I already posted this before from no. 1608:
In v.18, Mary Magdalene announced to the disciples that she has seen the Lord Jesus.
(Thomas was not included and it does not specify who are those disciples that she was told aside form v.1 & v.2 Simon Peter & Peter)
In v.19, Jesus came and appeared with the disciples
(Thomas was not included)
In v.25, Those disciples who have seen Jesus told Thomas. Truly he doubted about the information that Jesus appeared to them. Thomas claimed that he must see Jesus first before believing.
Note: Thomas has in mind (in advance) that Jesus came and appeared to other disciples without him but to assure the validity of information, he must see Jesus first.
In v.26,
take note of the span of days, this is after eight days that Thomas knew about Jesus appearance with the other disciples. Look at the first word of Jesus, He say "Peace be with you," then He continues saying "Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing."
In v.28, Thomas confessed "My Lord and my God!"
Now, let us analyze the situation about the expression. This is what most of the non-trinitarians believers used to misinterpret it as the expression. Let me ask you this questions:
1. Why would Thomas will uttered such a phrase "My God" to Jesus when they are not allowed to call someone "God" during their time?
2. Why Jesus does not corrected nor rebuke Thomas if He was not God?
3. Do you think that a person's reaction to commit such an expression is valid when Thomas knew the information about Jesus appearance beforehand (after eight days passed)?
4. Would somebody will react such expression upon the following sequence of scenario?
- eight days passed knew that Jesus appearance
- Jesus appeared first and uttered
"Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing."
5. Why Thomas was not stoned by the other disciples when He uttered "My Lord and My God"? (When Jesus claimed to be God, the Jews stoned Him) Why not for Thomas?
I think it is better to understand and know their custom and tradition before jumping to exclamation point. This is for the sake of Scripture study to get the right context.
The number one question should be first answered. How would you reconcile Thomas’ confession of 'My Lord and My God' with the taking of God’s name in vain (calling someone God for the punishment of stoning)?
Additionally, Scholars accepted Greek text for John 20:28 in this format:
Nestle GNT 1904
ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ
Ὁ Κύριός μου καὶ ὁ Θεός μου.
Westcott and Hort 1881
ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ
Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου.
Answered Thomas and said to him
, the Lord of me and the God of me.
Secondly, it says Thomas
said to him, therefore the expression of surprise is unjustifiable and no effect.
Well, Jesus was the messiah. He speaks to God. He is the word of God. He will speak for God. Why cant he say it?
Then, why He is not God if can say it?
Does a man have the full authority (as deity) to forgive someone?
And just think of the logical fallacy, you quote "I will ask the father if your sin is forgiven or not" as Jesus said it, while Jesus himself is the God. Of course Jesus will ask God, and God would tell him. Jesus is Gods representative, his Christ.
Should Jesus ask the Father about this?
Of course, not. Jesus said that they are one with the Father, they are in unity. What the plan of the Father is also the plan of Jesus.
Where does Jesus say what you say "Saviour should be a man to save our soul and can bring us to eternity"??
Acts 4:12
12. "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."
John 3:16
16. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
I explain things about Jesus in the form of question. What I mean is how can a man (human) be a Saviour for sinners, and can bring our soul to eternity—if Jesus is not God??