Oeste
Well-Known Member
A man is not worshipped like God. But some people do. There are many men worshipped as God. All over the world. But that does not make them God. Also, the "Worship" in the bible when referred to men is not "Worship" like worshipping God. Its paying respect. I explained that in an earlier post.
Hi Firedragon:
I think Yoshua has brought up some very good points in his discourse.
As everyone here is aware, there’s a difference between the biblical worship shown to parents or others in authority, and the worship shown to God. But the big difference is that Christians are not instructed to bow before anyone except God, yet they are instructed to bow before Jesus.
I simply find it incredulous that some believe Jesus will receive no more worship than that given our President or other government officials, just as I find it incredulous the Magi would travel hundreds, if not thousands of miles just to tell Jesus “we respect you”.
Satan offered exactly that kind of worldly worship (or respect) during Jesus’ 3rd temptation (even though the world wasn’t his to offer), and Jesus vehemently declined. I don’t understand why folks draw parity between the worship Jehovah grants Jesus and the worship Satan attempted to bequeath.
Perhaps some of you who have come to this conclusion can elaborate.
Fell down and worship does not make a person a God. That is why I said that there were many who were worshipped like that in the bible. Everyone must be God then.
For a Christian to fall down and worship anyone, he would have to be God, otherwise he is not conducting himself as a Christian.
So your point is, again, that Thomas said to Jesus "My God" and that makes Jesus God. Thats an exclamation. A third party exclamation. Your salvation relies on this kind of third party utterences! Bro, speak to a scholar in the NT, they will not use this quote to prove Jesus is God. You will see preachers and layman apologists using this.
God Himself, YHWH himself calls Moses Elohim. Even that doesnt make anyone else God.
God said Moses would be "...like a god to Pharoah", not that he would be god to Pharoah.
And my example was not of Moses, it was Moses's father in law. Moses worships him. Thats how you pay respect. Fell down and worshipped him. That does not make him God.
Correct, and I agree. But if God insturcts everyone to bend the knee to his father in law, it carries a radically different connotation than Moses doing the same out of cultural tradition.
Anyway, on your last point, the new testament does not have any eye witnesses. There are only revelations. Only paul would have been alive during the ministry of Jesus but yet, he never met Jesus. No one knows who wrote Hebrews. No one. No one is clear as to how many authored the Revelations. No one knows who authored the synoptic gospels. In bible study it is common knowledge that Mark was the first Gospel and other had sources, Q, L and M to write their books. John is completely out of the picture. A completely different theology.
There are no eye witnesses brother.
Well if we're to throw out chunks of our gospel I can understand how one arrives at the conclusion Jesus is not God. It's only by viewing the whole of scripture that Jesus is seen to be God.
I don't want to get too far away from thread theme, but once we've thrown out John, Hebrews, Revelation and the synoptic gospels, what parts do you think we should keep?