firedragon
Veteran Member
Apologies for a late reply. I received your book and am currently reading it. All due respect and thank you. Your humility is highly appreciated in a world of arrogance.
Again, thank you very much.
Peace.
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Is Jesus God?
- Thread starter Orbit
- Start date
Apologies for a late reply. I received your book and am currently reading it. All due respect and thank you. Your humility is highly appreciated in a world of arrogance.
Again, thank you very much.
Peace.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Thank you, I respect you very much also, you are a great human being.
Yoshua
Well-Known Member
Hi Psycho,
Ok. Just to inform you that when we used the word "God" in big letter "G," it would mean God, the Creator. When we used "god," that may mean judges or rulers. I'm not a bad tempered man, and judged you. Those big caps means a lot.
Thanks.
Yoshua
Well-Known Member
Hi Notaclue,
Are you a Christian who does not believe that God is omniscient??
Based on this Scripture, truly God is omniscient but when God would'nt let you know about His plan or His coming, that would not mean that he is not God.
Deut. 29:29
29. "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.
Thanks
Matt.24: 34. “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.35“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mk.13:30. “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.31“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away. 32“But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Acts1:6. So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;
which the 'Father' has fixed by His own authority;
Can you tell me why the 'Son' don't know times and epochs?
You said the 'Son' is God?
The "Son" doesn't know times and epochs. How can you say he is God?
The Son is not omniscient.
Peace.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Well that is how you see it, and I may see it in another light, nothing wrong in that.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
John 14:26
26. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
If God has a Son, then there is an individual persons. A person have mind, will and emotions--as the Father and the Son also. The Holy Spirit has the attributes of God
The third person is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a real person.
Heb. 3:7-10
7. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, Today if ye will hear his voice,
8. Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Tell me who say those statements in italics?
Psalm 95:7-11
7. For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. Today if ye will hear his voice,
8. Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
10. Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11. Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
Now, tell me who say those statements in italics?
Thanks
The Holy Spirit is not a person. It is the power of God. That is the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God. Luke 1 even tells us that, along with many other verses. In the OT the angel of God's Presence was called the Holy Spirit or God's spirit too.
The Holy Spirit inspires the writers of the Bible. Therefore anything at all written in the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit... the power of God. It was Yahweh that was grieved with that generation. The Holy Spirit is simply His power. It is like referring to my breath as if it is a different person than I am. That is silly.
The Holy Spirit has "said" everything that is written in the Bible. That is how it was written, but the inspiration of the Creator.
Yoshua
Well-Known Member
Hi Ura,
When we say it is a person, He is a personal being and not an impersonal being. He has life, mind, will, and emotion.
John 16:13
13. "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
Acts 13:2
2. And while they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."
The Holy Spirit is identified as “I.” Did the word “Comforter” or Helper in Gk. paracletos is applied to things or person? Of course it cannot be things or force, He is a person.
How could the Spirit speaks if it is not a person?
Matt. 28:19
19. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father (person) and the Son (person) and the Holy Spirit,(not person or person?)
Aside from filling and pouring of his Spirit, how would you reconcile the Comforter/Helper who speaks, guide, grieve, convicts, teaches, gives commands…?
Do you think that those are not person but neuter and impersonal??
Does “impersonal” has a will, life, and emotion?
Does “impersonal” has the attributes of being omniscient, omnipresent and eternal?
Thanks
Yoshua
Well-Known Member
Hi Notaclue,
There is no argument that the Father (alone) who knows the era, ages and time for there is one God. Now, my Trinitarian belief is telling me that there is one God who exists in the person of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God (not tritheism).
Now, for your the same question that you've given me about times and epochs, I believe that the Scriptures (above) are referring to Jesus' return. If we look at 1 Thess. 5:2,
2. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
That would mean that there is no specific dates or time about His coming because it is stated that the Lord Himself will come like a thief in the night.
Then, when I say that the Son is God, it is because of the existence of one God in three persons.
Yes, the Son does not reveal the times and epochs. It says "it is not for you to know." Therefore, if God does not like people to know the times and epochs, who are we to force God to reveal the time and epochs?
7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;
To conclude that the Son is not omniscient does not have any effect at all because of the following:
a. The Lord will come like a thief in the night.
b. God does not want to reveal the time and epochs.
Thanks
Last edited:
Yoshua
Well-Known Member
Hi Moorea,
I fully understand why you insist that the Holy Spirit is the power of God, and the Spirit of God. Now, if you believe on what Jesus have said about the Comforter or Helper (Holy Spirit), why don't you try to reconcile it with the Spirit of the Lord. How about the Holy Spirit have life, emotions, grieves, comfort, guides, teaches, give commands and convicts??
Now, if you don't believe in the New Testament and what Jesus had promised about the Holy Spirit--to be with us forever, and the letters of Paul, I think you're just focusing on the Old Testament writings.
Thanks
Yoshua
Well-Known Member
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Then why do you insist that the Holy Spirit is a Person? Then wouldnt he be the father of Jesus then? Doesnt work, does it.
Doesnt the Holy Spirit work through people? Doesnt God "give" the Holy spirit to people? Where is the Holy spirit coming from? It is coming from God. Luke 1, the Holy Spirit is the power of God. Plus, those verses are talking about an angel coming to help. An angel IS a Holy Spirit. Not the third person in the trinity. The HS can also refer to an angel. Jesus also said that he was going to send his angel to help too when he would go away.
Absolutely not. Why would anyone not believe in the NT? I focus on the OT and the NT.
Hi Notaclue,
There is no argument that the Father (alone) who knows the era, ages and time for there is one God. Now, my Trinitarian belief is telling me that there is one God who exists in the person of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God (not tritheism).
Now, for your the same question that you've given me about times and epochs, I believe that the Scriptures (above) are referring to Jesus' return. If we look at 1 Thess. 5:2,
2. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
That would mean that there is no specific dates or time about His coming because it is stated that the Lord Himself will come like a thief in the night.
Then, when I say that the Son is God, it is because of the existence of one God in three persons.
Yes, the Son does not reveal the times and epochs. It says "it is not for you to know." Therefore, if God does not like people to know the times and epochs, who are we to force God to reveal the time and epochs?
7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;
To conclude that the Son is not omniscient does not have any effect at all because of the following:
a. The Lord will come like a thief in the night.
b. God does not want to reveal the time and epochs.
Thanks
Hi Notaclue,
There is no argument that the Father (alone) who knows the era, ages and time for there is one God. Now, my Trinitarian belief is telling me that there is one God who exists in the person of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God (not tritheism).
Now, for your the same question that you've given me about times and epochs, I believe that the Scriptures (above) are referring to Jesus' return. If we look at 1 Thess. 5:2,
2. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
That would mean that there is no specific dates or time about His coming because it is stated that the Lord Himself will come like a thief in the night.
Then, when I say that the Son is God, it is because of the existence of one God in three persons.
Yes, the Son does not reveal the times and epochs. It says "it is not for you to know." Therefore, if God does not like people to know the times and epochs, who are we to force God to reveal the time and epochs?
7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;
To conclude that the Son is not omniscient does not have any effect at all because of the following:
a. The Lord will come like a thief in the night.
b. God does not want to reveal the time and epochs.
Thanks
(Quote)
There is no argument that the Father (alone) who knows the era, ages and time for there is one God.
To conclude that the Son is not omniscient does not have any effect at all
because of the following:
a. The Lord will come like a thief in the night.
b. God does not want to reveal the time and epochs.
(Quote)Yoshua
Hi Notaclue,
God exists in three distinct persons as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They are divine in nature and 'equal'.
How can they be equal, knowing that the Son is not
omniscient?
Peace.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Good post! Just want to add that Jesus was never equal to his father. Everything was "given" to him. Jesus had nothing. Was Jesus born perfect? No. He made perfect "through" suffering, etc. He had to learn so many things about his father. Even in Acts 2 when Peter stands up on the day of Pent, he even talks about Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God. And all of his miracles were God's miracles, that God did "through" His son. So many verses like that one that tell us that God always worked through His son.
Gen.7:21. All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind;
22. of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died.
the 'breath' of the 'spirit' of 'life', died.
Peace.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
This is a better translation. "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died."
God keeps us alive by his spirit and by the air that we breathe.
Eccl 12 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (breathe) shall return unto God who gave it." God gives us our breath. But "spirit" can be written in different ways. It can also relate to someone's "mind" or the way we are or think.
But I"m really not sure what your point is.....
james2ko
Well-Known Member
2Co 3:17-18 For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like Him as we are changed into His glorious image. (NLT)
These passages suggest the glorified Lord (Jesus) is the "holy spirit.” As opposed to "has" the spirit. Scripture tells us human beings, including the incarnate Jesus, "have" the spirit (Num 27:18; Mat 3:16; 1 Joh 4:2-3,6 NLT). Suggesting Christ and the hs are one in the same and not separate entities. He has been invested with all spiritual authority and power to effectively carry out his responsibility as the Head of his body.
By his “spirit” he is able to guide and direct his many servants (2 Co 12:8-9). There are many NT examples indicating the holy spirit was actually the glorified Jesus.
The “Comforter,” more properly translated as “Counselor,” is said by Jesus to fill the void created by his going to the Father (Joh 14:12). By this spirit he would still be present: “I will come to you” (14:18); “I am in you” (14:20); and “I will show myself” (14:21). By this spirit his work with them would continue: “It will teach you”(14:26); “It will remind you of everything I have said” (14:26); “It will testify about me” (15:26); “It will convict the world of guilt” (in preparation for his judgment—16:8); “It will guide you into all truth” (16:13); “It will bring glory to me by taking what is mine and making it known to you” (16:14).
All of these statements point to the role of the gift of holy spirit in continuing the work that Jesus started, and even empowering his followers for greater works. This spirit is not independent and self-existent, but is “the mind of Christ” within the believer, influencing, guiding, teaching, reminding and pointing the believer to follow his Lord and Savior. In other words, it is the believer, through the hs, who gets life, displays emotions, grieves, is comforted, guided, taught, commanded, and convicted.
These passages suggest the glorified Lord (Jesus) is the "holy spirit.”
Rev.21:9. Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
Eph.5:30. because we are members of his body.. 31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
two shall be 'one' (flesh) (Spirit)??
“I will come to you” (Jn.14:18);
I believe this is fulfilled.
Is.62:4. (E.S.V.). You shall no more be termed Forsaken,
and your land(earth) shall no more be termed Desolate,
but you shall be called My Delight Is in Her,
and your land(earth) Married;
for the LORD delights in you,
and your land (earth) shall be married.
5. For as a young man marries a young woman,
so shall your sons marry you,
and as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride,
so shall your God rejoice over you.
so shall your sons marry you,
Is.65:18. But be glad and rejoice forever
in that which I "create;"
for behold, I "create" Jerusalem to be a joy,
and her people to be a gladness.
Create = Born from the Dead.
Peace.
Yoshua
Well-Known Member
Hi Moorea,
It is because it shows in the Scriptures that the Holy Spirit is a person? There is only one Father (God).
John 14:16
16. "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
Yes, absolutely. The Holy Spirit was given to work through His people. It is coming from God for it was given as another person.
Regarding the angel is the Holy Spirit, may I ask some supporting Scripture?
Really? Then why not believe in Paul’s statement and letters?
Thanks