Is Jesus God?

[Yoshua]

JESUS is prophet not god :

Jesus said : "I shall press today and tomorrow , prophet shall not die " Luke 13

Hi life,

This is about those prophets that God sent since from the Old Testament that they've killed.

God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being,


Jesus is human so he is not god.

Well, Jesus is human and called "God"(divine being).

christian claim jesus is son of god to prove he is god.

word " son of god " doesn't mean begotten son.

Jesus is called the "Son of God" and not "Son of god."
John 1:49
Nathanael answered Him, " Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel. NASU

Mark 1:1-3
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
2 As it is written in Isaiah the prophet:

"BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU,
WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY;
3 THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
'MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT.'"

there is no direct sentence in bible where Jesus says " I am god "

If there is no direct sentence, another way to know is the narrative in the Bible. If a person called Jesus, God, and Jesus did not that rebuke nor corrected him, what do you think it is??

John 20:28-29
28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." NASU

Thanks

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I believed Philip Harne's position is that the Son's nature is that of God , and not a god which also accepted by Daniel Wallace, a known Greek Scholar.

Harner continues:
As John has just spoken in terms of relationship and differentiation between ho logos and ho theos, he would imply in B or C that they share the same nature as belonging to the reality theos. Clauses B and C are identical in meaning but differ slightly in emphasis. C would mean that the logos (rather than something else) had the nature of theos. B means that the logos had the nature of theos (rather than something else). In this clause, the form that John actually uses, the word theos is placed at the beginning for emphasis (IBID, p. 85).


Thus, Harner says that not only is John attributing the nature of THEOS to the LOGOS, but emphasizes that nature by placing THEOS at the head of the clause. The emphasis of THEOS would seem unaccountable if John intended an indefinite nuance, but is perfectly understandable if THEOS is qualitative, signifying that the Son's nature is that of God. www.forananswer.org

Daniel B. Wallace
In his intermediate Greek grammar, Wallace accepts Harner's definition of the qualitative semantic force, and provides a number of examples outside of John 1:1. Wallace, like Harner, advocates qualitativeness as a separate semantic category, either coexisting alongside definite or indefinite semantic forces or existing by itself. Citing Harner and Dixon, Wallace concludes that THEOS in John 1:1 is qualitative, and finds the indefinite semantic force the least likely for preverbal predicate nominatives. Though Wallace says that "the Word was divine" may be an acceptable translation, this is only acceptable if we define "divine" in such a way that it is only applied to true Deity. The import of the qualitative force goes well beyond what we commonly would refer to as "divine" in contemporary usage:


The idea of qualitative qeoV here is that the Word had all the attributes and qualities that "the God" (of 1:1b) had. In other words, he shared the essence of the Father, though they differed in person. The construction the evangelist chose to express this idea was the most concise way he could have stated that the Word was God and yet was distinct from the Father (Wallace, p. 269, emphasis in original). www.forananswer.org

I believed that there is a hell.

Thanks

My goodness! Excuse me, but this is so much spin. I'm dizzy.

This Wallace guy, regarding Jn 1:1, talks about semantics? 'The Word is with God, and the Word is God. This Word was with God'? Semantics discredits this as being the correct rendering. His audacity to inject semantics into the issue is staggering.

BTW Yoshua, my cousin, "nature" and "essence" are Greek philosophical terms that you don't find in the Bible. Only in translations written by trinitarians.

And "divine" means "of, or from, God".....not God himself.

 

[Yoshua]

My goodness! Excuse me, but this is so much spin. I'm dizzy.

This Wallace guy, regarding Jn 1:1, talks about semantics? 'The Word is with God, and the Word is God. This Word was with God'? Semantics discredits this as being the correct rendering. His audacity to inject semantics into the issue is staggering.

Hi Hockey,

Hmmmm, then who do you think will be the authority? a non-biblical Greek scholar? Just to show this to you since you further asked about Harner.

BTW Yoshua, my cousin, "nature" and "essence" are Greek philosophical terms that you don't find in the Bible. Only in translations written by trinitarians.

And "divine" means "of, or from, God".....not God himself.

Ok. then remove them, they are just only a term that were being used like trinity, person and the word "Bible". This has not change anything since there is God existence (in three persons).

By the way, may I know what is your belief? a JW, unitarian?

Thanks

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hi Hockey,

Hmmmm, then who do you think will be the authority? a non-biblical Greek scholar? Just to show this to you since you further asked about Harner.

Ok. then remove them, they are just only a term that were being used like trinity, person and the word "Bible". This has not change anything since there is God existence (in three persons).

By the way, may I know what is your belief? a JW, unitarian?

Thanks

Good morning, Yoshua!

Your comment: "...who do you think will be the authority? a non-biblical Greek scholar?"

Fishermen.......Who did Jesus choose as His disciples? According to Acts of the Apostles 4:13, "men unlettered and ordinary." Because what's really needed, is not a degree, but humility and obedience to God's Word. The Father "reveals" the truth....not even Jesus does that. (Luke 10:21) It comes from Jehovah (Isaiah 64:8). Did not Jesus Himself say, "just as the Father taught me, I speak these things"? And, "what I teach is not mine, but belongs to Him who sent me"?

It's passages such as these (of which there are many throughout the Gospels) and a bunch of others that tell me that Jesus is not co-equal with the Father.

I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Take care, my friend.

 

[life.period]

Hi life,

This is about those prophets that God sent since from the Old Testament that they've killed.

Well, Jesus is human and called "God"(divine being).

Jesus is called the "Son of God" and not "Son of god."
John 1:49
Nathanael answered Him, " Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel. NASU

Mark 1:1-3
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
2 As it is written in Isaiah the prophet:

"BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU,
WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY;
3 THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
'MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT.'"

If there is no direct sentence, another way to know is the narrative in the Bible. If a person called Jesus, God, and Jesus did not that rebuke nor corrected him, what do you think it is??

John 20:28-29
28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." NASU

Thanks

Not about prophet in old testonemy

Read it Luke 13

Jews tend to catch Jesus but his friend warned him so he flee

Don't assume things ..

You claim Jesus is human and called god but your book deny human is god .

It is not me but your book

God is not human that he lies " numbers 23

So insisting Jesus is god is false .

It is same . Original copy there is no capital son of god . Hebrew version

Jesus said " God is greater than I "

Jesus not equal to god


But he is equal to jews :

Jesus said : " it is written you are gods "

Massager like prophet not god

Prophet like Moses , Isaac ... etc

Bible confirm Muslims believe is true

 

[life.period]

Hi life,

This is about those prophets that God sent since from the Old Testament that they've killed.

Well, Jesus is human and called "God"(divine being).

Jesus is called the "Son of God" and not "Son of god."
John 1:49
Nathanael answered Him, " Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel. NASU

Mark 1:1-3
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
2 As it is written in Isaiah the prophet:

"BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU,
WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY;
3 THE VOICE OF ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS,
'MAKE READY THE WAY OF THE LORD,
MAKE HIS PATHS STRAIGHT.'"

If there is no direct sentence, another way to know is the narrative in the Bible. If a person called Jesus, God, and Jesus did not that rebuke nor corrected him, what do you think it is??

John 20:28-29
28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed." NASU

Thanks

Adam also son of god like jesus

Luke " Seth son of Adam son of god "

Jesus said " you worship me in vain merely human teaching "

Jesus said god is one not three
God is his Lord

Hear oh Israel our Lord is god . God is one

Jesus is servent

Servent not god

Jesus is servent :

Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you may now dismiss your servant in peace.Luke 2:29

 

[Yoshua]

Good morning, Yoshua!

Your comment: "...who do you think will be the authority? a non-biblical Greek scholar?"

Fishermen.......Who did Jesus choose as His disciples? According to Acts of the Apostles 4:13, "men unlettered and ordinary." Because what's really needed, is not a degree, but humility and obedience to God's Word. The Father "reveals" the truth....not even Jesus does that. (Luke 10:21) It comes from Jehovah (Isaiah 64:8). Did not Jesus Himself say, "just as the Father taught me, I speak these things"? And, "what I teach is not mine, but belongs to Him who sent me"?

It's passages such as these (of which there are many throughout the Gospels) and a bunch of others that tell me that Jesus is not co-equal with the Father.

I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Take care, my friend.

Hi Hockey,

Yeah. That is true. Jesus chosen the ordinary people like the fisherman yet there are teachers of the law in Jesus time. He chosen the disciples to established His ministry --to fulfill God's plan. Now, the settings before were obviously different from today's settings. God is the authority, His word through Christ Jesus. Due to our discussion regarding the Greek scholars, we are just seeking a credible Greek scholars/teachers who will be the one to tell us the right usage of the Greek text for John 1:1.
Please remember that the Bible also stated that there are teachers, evangelist, preachers etc... those people used their gifts to propagate the gospel. Logically, you cannot asked a fisherman (modern time) about the study of Greek text but a Greek Bible teachers or scholars.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Not about prophet in old testonemy

Read it Luke 13

Jews tend to catch Jesus but his friend warned him so he flee

Don't assume things ..

Hi Life,

I think you should read the whole text, and not just only v. 34. Do you know that there are a lot of prophets in the Old Testament? In v.34, it says prophets (many) and not prophet (single).

Luke 13:28-35
28 " In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out. 29 "And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30 "And behold,some are last who will be first and some are first who will be last."

31 Just at that time some Pharisees approached, saying to Him, "Go away, leave here, for Herod wants to kill You." 32 And He said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I reach My goal.' 33 "Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day; for it cannot be that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem. 34 " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it! 35 "Behold, your house is left to you desolate; and I say to you, you will not see Me until the time comes when you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'"NASU

You claim Jesus is human and called god but your book deny human is god .

It is not me but your book

God is not human that he lies " numbers 23

So insisting Jesus is god is false .

It is same . Original copy there is no capital son of god . Hebrew version

Num 23:19

19 " God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent;NASU

The word theos was used, why not God?? you're mistaken.
Mark 1:1
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God Gk. theos, a deity). NASU

Luke 1:35
35 The angel answered and said to her, " The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. NASU

Isa 9:6
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God (warrior like, not a small god),
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. NASU

John 20:28-29
28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"NASU

Jesus said god is one not three
God is his Lord

Hear oh Israel our Lord is god . God is one

Yeah. God is one, that is true. Nobody says there are three Gods/gods, that is tritheism.

May I ask you Mr. life, is Jesus a Saviour or not?

Thanks

 

[JesusBeliever]

I'm interested in hearing thoughts about (1) Where this idea comes from and (2) If you agree with it and why/why not. I have heard it described like this: Because of the Trinity, Jesus is God, and all the things done in the Old Testament were therefore done by Jesus prior to his human incarnation. Thoughts?

Hi there, personally I'm not a big fan of the trinity but I do believe the Scriptures testify in many places that Jesus was and is the God of the Old Testament. Here's just one example:

"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God FORMED, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:10-11

Note that the Hebrew word for FORMED in this verse is the same word used in this verse:

"And the LORD God FORMED man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7

Recall also that Jesus said:

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of ME. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." John 5:39-40

 

[Britedream]

Jesus is the son of God.
I could not reconcile this for the following reasons.
if Jesus refers to:
1- The divine spirit, then the son of God did not die for the sin.
2- The human body, then a human being is worshiped.
3- The divine and the human body together, then this new combination did not exist before, that falsifies the claim that the Son is before the creation, and anything based on that.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Please remember that the Bible also stated that there are teachers, evangelist, preachers etc... those people used their gifts to propagate the gospel. Logically, you cannot asked a fisherman (modern time) about the study of Greek text but a Greek Bible teachers or scholars.

Hi, Yoshua. Hope you are doing well my cousin.

That is why I'm glad Scholar and Roman Catholic Priest John L. Mckenzie wrote his viewpoint on the subject!

But consider: You mention these "gifts" certain ones had....again, it was God that gave them these blessings through His spirit, not learning at a worldly-wise school. I'm sure you know 1 Corinthians 1:26-28...."26 For you behold his calling of you, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are,"

The important thing to have is God's spirit, which only comes to those who obey Him and His Son. How does Christendom fare in this regard do you think, Yoshua?

 

[Muffled]

That's a strange twist but that's not what the grammar and context reflects. The Greek adjective "ministering" is in the neuter modifying the neuter, not masculine, noun "spirit". This suggests emphasis on the essence of the noun (spirit). Your reasoning suggests the adjective and its modifying noun should have been in the masculine or feminine, which it is not. Additionally, the context does reflect the spirit essence of angels in verse 7:

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.​

Their essence and purpose are being emphasized in this verse and repeated in vs 14. You are free to believe what you want but the context and grammar of Heb 1:14 reflects essence.

I believe ministers do not literally become flames of fire so it looks metaphoric to me and therefore the comment about angels would fall into the same category. My translation says "winds" instead of "spirits" but either is valid in my opinion. The thing is that it isn't talking about creating spirits but making angels spirits. The concept seems to me that the making is a transformation rather than an essential creation.

I believe I don't want you to misunderstand me. I am not saying that angels are not spirits as we are, only that the Bible is silent about it.

I don't believe you have shown me anything that proves that.

 

[Muffled]

I don’t see it Moorea. I understand some churches, like the United Pentecostal Church, teach God “manifests” Himself at different times as the Son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. However if God was manifesting Himself as the son then who did Jesus pray to? Also, how would Jesus go to be with the Father? Wouldn’t he just manifest himself as the Father?

I believe that would be the Father so in essence God prays to Himself.

I am no sure to what you are referring but as long as the body exists there is a dichotomy. There is this verse:
Lu 23:46 And Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said this, he gave up the ghost. I believe it means that no longer with the body there is no longer a dichotomy.

I believe that would be impossible. It does seem that way because Jesus and the Father are one but as long as the dichotomy exists one may not be the other.

 

[james2ko]

I believe ministers do not literally become flames of fire so it looks metaphoric to me and therefore the comment about angels would fall into the same category. My translation says "winds" instead of "spirits" but either is valid in my opinion. The thing is that it isn't talking about creating spirits but making angels spirits. The concept seems to me that the making is a transformation rather than an essential creation.

I believe I don't want you to misunderstand me. I am not saying that angels are not spirits as we are, only that the Bible is silent about it.

I don't believe you have shown me anything that proves that

That's fine. I never expect to prove anything to the one I am replying to. But thanks for giving me the opportunity to perhaps allow someone else, who may have read my reply, to discern the truth for themselves.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus is not god.


Jesus In Holly Qur'an : "

I am a servant of Allah. He gave me the Book and made me a prophet." [Sûrah Maryam: 30].

Jesus in Bible :

☆Jesus is not god but servent :

Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you may now dismiss your servant in peace.Luke 2:29

☆ JESUS is prophet not god :

Jesus said : "I shall press today and tomorrow , prophet shall not die " Luke 13


☆ god is not human

Numbers 23:19 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being,


Jesus is human so he is not god.



christian claim jesus is son of god to prove he is god.

word " son of god " doesn't mean begotten son.

Adam was mentioned in bible he is son of god like Jesus .

"Seth son of Adam son of god " luke

Jesus is equal to Adam .

but Jesus is not equal to god :

Jesus said in bible : " father is greater than I"

Word of god when it refered to human being then it doesn't mean deserved to be worshipped or creator .

Jesus ordered his follower to worship god only not him :

Jesus said : " it is written to worship your god and serve him only " bible

Jesus predicted his follower will mislead .

" you worship me in vain , merely human teaching " Matthew 15

So christian are not following Jesus teaching but human teaching.

That mean that they are following false prophet who jesus predict in bible he will mislead him.

This prophet is Paul.

Bible mention that false prophets are known from their fruits . There sign is "expelling evils in jesus name" because Jesus will deny who expel evil in his name.

Paul said in his letters he expelled evils from women in jesus name .

So Paul is false prophet


there is no direct sentence in bible where Jesus says " I am god "


Note : direct sentence .

Christian take indirect sentence to prove Jesus is god or Words from Paul.

Jesus says jews are gods .

Jesus said to jews in bible : " it is written .. you are gods "


There are christian who believed jesus is not god but prophet like muslims. They are called Gnostic.

John king of Cyprus also was Gnostic.


In Roman pagan emporer Constantine time he held nicaea council to solve fight between Athanious who claim Jesus is god " they were minority " and Arious who believe jesus is not god but prophet and they were majority.

What happen is that pagan roman Constantine ended council by declaring Jesus as god and execution who ever stand against his declaration
That fit his paganism .

Roman pagan used to worship human .

They have several gods like Mars : god of war and many others .

for more look in Google search

Most important god is sol invictus
Sun god

They celebrated in sol invictus birthday on 25 Dec and they replaced jesus in sol invictus place and kept celebrating in jesus birthday in 25 Dec.

Adam Clark said Jesus was not born in 25 Dec because there was no sheep's in farm .... etc

Catholic source said confirm pagan celebration was reason for celebrating in jesus birthday in 25 .


Roman also inserted sun symbols in Christianity and you can see that jesus picture associated with Sun symbol.

In church alter :

Nicaea council also known in Christianity.

Walter nigg talked about nicaea council .

The messianic legacy book mention Christianity we know today is not derived from jesus time but from Constantine.

I believe if there is any truth in that statement I certainly don't want to dig through all the falsehoods to get to it.

 

[Muffled]

That's fine. I never expect to prove anything to the one I am replying to. But thanks for giving me the opportunity to perhaps allow someone else, who may have read my reply, to discern the truth for themselves.

I believe you have proven that you have access to Bible verses. Does that help, lol.

 

[james2ko]

I believe you have proven that you have access to Bible verses. Does that help, lol.

Was that an attempt at a joke? If it was, I highly recommend you stick to your area of expertise, which is simply stating your "beliefs".

 

[Yoshua]

Hi, Yoshua. Hope you are doing well my cousin.

That is why I'm glad Scholar and Roman Catholic Priest John L. Mckenzie wrote his viewpoint on the subject!

But consider: You mention these "gifts" certain ones had....again, it was God that gave them these blessings through His spirit, not learning at a worldly-wise school. I'm sure you know 1 Corinthians 1:26-28...."26 For you behold his calling of you, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are,"

The important thing to have is God's spirit, which only comes to those who obey Him and His Son. How does Christendom fare in this regard do you think, Yoshua?

Hi Hockey,

Yeah. No problem with your quoted scriptures. About God's spirit (Holy Spirit), do you believe that the Holy Spirit is personal or impersonal? Is it a force or not a force?

Thanks

 

[MJFlores]

Funny you brought up Iglesia ni Cristo. I visited one for mid week Bible study one time because I was curious about them. I was living in a tiny town at the time, and this group purchased an old Baptist church building downtown, and I wondered what they were all about. At the time, I was involved in our local church pantry along with 12 other churches in our community. I wanted to invite this new group to join our effort in feeding the needy. They were very warm and welcoming, but I immediately picked up on their false teachings. They are considered to be a cult. They have a single charismatic leader name Felix Manalo who claimed to be a prophet of God.

They should not be confused with the Churches of Christ found throughout the world. The Iglesias ni Cristo are nothing like the churches of Christ in the New Testament.

You said,
"Now, if you examine carefully, one of the basic components of any of these cults, their leaders all have some kind of special, exclusive or absolute revelation from God, especially the mormons, muslims, jw, iglesia ni cristo and even the rcc, or post-revelation from God or post-enlightenment."

You are spot on! All of the above claim special revelation from God. All claim to believe the Bible is the word of God, yet all undermine it in a variety of ways.

Oh my, Bro. Felix Manalo isn't a prophet - he is a messenger.
If Iglesia ni Cristo is a cult - oh boy - I am a cult member. Hehehe!

I was born Catholic and I know what a cult is because I was born into one.
Marialis Cultus (February 2, 1974) | Paul VI

 

[Riders]

Oh my, Bro. Felix Manalo isn't a prophet - he is a messenger.
If Iglesia ni Cristo is a cult - oh boy - I am a cult member. Hehehe!

I was born Catholic and I know what a cult is because I was born into one.
Marialis Cultus (February 2, 1974) | Paul VI

Cults teach hate, and teach anti Catholic hate sentiment. I know I was in a cult like yours. I went to a Pentecostal who had a strict dress code where you have to speak in tongues to be saved believe in oneness instead of the Trinity. They were all about anti-Catholic and anti Pagan trash. That's what your church is, hate group cult who hates Gays and lesbians Catholics and Pagans.