Is Jesus GOD?

[Ben Dhyan]

Ok, so do you believe that God creates evil? He definitely said that he did!

In case it is not understood, God is Absolute....

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7

 

[Jacksnyte]

In case it is not understood, God is Absolute....

And how do you define Hell?

 

[free spirit]

Ok, so do you believe that God creates evil? He definitely said that he did!

I know that God knows good and evil, but there is no evil in his ways; I also know good and evil but my way is not holy.

Satan on the other hand knew good and evil and he chose to do only evil.

If God created evil, He did that to use it to create something equal to himself, like men created the hammer to make something usefull for himself.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And how do you define Hell?

Nor sure of the relevance of this question, but in any event, I don't define it.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Nor sure of the relevance of this question, but in any event, I don't define it.

Most christians define it as seperation from God.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So what?

 

[Jacksnyte]

So what?

In your earlier post, you said:

In case it is not understood, God is Absolute....

Quote:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7

An "absolute" (Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient) entity would be literally everywhere, without exception. If Hell is a seperation from/absence of god, then this negates his being absolute.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

In your earlier post, you said:
An "absolute" (Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient) entity would be literally everywhere, without exception. If Hell is a seperation from/absence of god, then this negates his being absolute.

Obviously so, but if you want to debate the subject of omnipresence in the context of the reality represented by the concept 'hell' then you should find some people who actually believe hell exists and start another thread.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Obviously so, but if you want to debate the subject of omnipresence in the context of the reality represented by the concept 'hell' then you should find some people who actually believe hell exists and start another thread.

Good point!

 

[muzu]

Your problem is that you cannot see that God has come in the flesh, therefore you cannot see that God is Lord and saviour, King and priest, God and servant, He will also become your heavenly Father and your heavenly Brother if you overcome the test.

If God has indeed come in the flesh, then why would God (Jesus) ask the God (father) for help and forgiveness?. Does it makes sense.

Also, why would God came out of a women like all other people.? Why wouldn't he just appeared as a man instead of first taking a helpless baby form. I think it is utter blasphemy to claim that God came out crying and screaming and being helpless and weak. :sad:

 

[free spirit]

originally posted by muzu;2441694]
If God has indeed come in the flesh, then why would God (Jesus) ask the God (father) for help and forgiveness?. Does it makes sense.

Jesus never asked for forgiveness because He never sinned. God come in the flesh because no one on earth could fulfill the law; By fulfilling the law He reversed what Adam did and extablished peace between man and God.

Also, why would God came out of a women like all other people.? Why wouldn't he just appeared as a man instead of first taking a helpless baby form.

To understand this question you will have to know God's true purpose for creating humanity.
By reading the New Testament I believe that God is father and He longs for a family.
God loves humanity so much that He willed himself to us.
Therefore He partook of human flesh and soul so that His human form could be the first to inherit himself.
And if we believe and obey His human form whom He appointed king and priest, or God and saviour, or judge and advocate, we will also through Him can inherit God. For we read in Matthew 12:50, "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother. We also read in Romans 8:16-17, "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him.
Many believers thinks that God is only God, to be served as if he needs anything; but to others God is a Father to be loved and by the grace of Christ we are made equal to Him.

I think it is utter blasphemy to claim that God came out crying and screaming and being helpless and weak. :sad:

Yes but they are the very things that God has chosen to humble the proud, for we read in 1 Corinthians 1:26-29, "for consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the uneducate men of the world to shame the wise. and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised, God has chosen the things that are not coveted, that He might nullify the things that are. that no man should boast before God." (the Italics are my)

 

[muzu]

Jesus never asked for forgiveness because He never sinned. God come in the flesh because no one on earth could fulfill the law; By fulfilling the law He reversed what Adam did and extablished peace between man and God.

Jesus(pbuh) seeked for forgiveness.

Luke 23: 33-35 reads

33 - When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals--one on his right, the other on his left.

34 - Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

35 - The people stood watching, and the rulers even sneered at him. They said, "He saved others; let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One."

It is clear from above verses that Jesus (pbuh) asked GOD to forgive them.

Jesus (pbuh) also had to seek help from the God. Had he been the God, he would had never prayed and asked for help. Matthew 26:36-44 reads

36 - Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray."

37 - He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.

38 - Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."

39 - Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

40 - Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter.

41 - "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."

42 - He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."

43 - When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy.

44 - So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Moreover, Jesus(pbuh) was tempted and suffered by Satan for 40 days and 40 nights. Mark 1:12-13 reads

"At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him"

Hebrews 2: 18 reads

"Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted."

God cannot be tempted. As is clearly mentioned in James 1: 13-15

13 - When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

14 - but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.

15 - Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full -grown, gives birth to death.

so we can say that Jesus(pbuh) had evil desires when he was tempted. If you think Jesus(pbuh) is God, then you simply are not following Gospels. :cover:

To understand this question you will have to know God's true purpose for creating humanity.
By reading the New Testament I believe that God is father and He longs for a family.
God loves humanity so much that He willed himself to us.
Therefore He partook of human flesh and soul so that His human form could be the first to inherit himself.
And if we believe and obey His human form whom He appointed king and priest, or God and saviour, or judge and advocate, we will also through Him can inherit God. For we read in Matthew 12:50, "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother. We also read in Romans 8:16-17, "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him.
Many believers thinks that God is only God, to be served as if he needs anything; but to others God is a Father to be loved and by the grace of Christ we are made equal to Him.

God can never become a man as it is clearly mentioned in Numbers and Job.

Numbers 23:19 - God is not a man, that he should lie. He is not a human, that he should change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?

Job 25:4 - How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

 

[free spirit]

muzu;2442563]Jesus(pbuh) seeked for forgiveness.

Yes... He intercedes for others.

Jesus (pbuh) also had to seek help from the God. Had he been the God, he would had never prayed and asked for help.

He become a man like you and me, for we read in Philippians 2:6-11, "Who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. and being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

We also read in ACTS 2:32-36, "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand, until I make thine enemies a footstool for thy feet.' Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified."

Moreover, Jesus(pbuh) was tempted and suffered by Satan for 40 days and 40 nights.
God cannot be tempted. As is clearly mentioned in James 1: 13-15
so we can say that Jesus(pbuh) had evil desires when he was tempted. If you think Jesus(pbuh) is God, then you simply are not following Gospels. :cover:

We read in ACTS 4:10-12, "Let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, who you crucified, whom God raised from the dead by this name this man stands here before you in good health. He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which become the very corner stone. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."

God can never become a man as it is clearly mentioned in Numbers and Job.

This is the reason you cannot understand. God can do anything, he is God.
By becoming a man God demonstrated to us his unfathomable love for humanity.

 

[Judge Roy Bean]

Most of christians have belief that Jesus is GOD? i failed to understand if Jesus indeed is GOD, then how could he die? Can God die? Suppose, if he died for whatever reason, someone else there has to bring him back to life (reserruction). Is he God then?

Please through some light on this..

we tend to think in 3 dimensions plus time, where as God is and thinks in at least 11 dimensions. (can live outside space-time)

in the 3rd dimension + time, God/Jesus died and rose from the dead, but in the 11th dimension, that was not so. (he died physically not spiritually) - there is more to the Lord Jesus then meets the eye -

quantum physicists say, that on the sub-atomic level all humans are only vibrations in space-time. (all matter actually)

with all due respect to God, one might say, we are all God's imaginary best friends.

i mean its my understanding, we were all imagined by and created for Him. - (made after His image)

its my understanding, that God can operate in hypertime or outside space-time as he wishes. (a 1000 years in hypertime can equal 1 day in our space-time.)


i hope that helps you.

 

[Jacksnyte]

[QUOTE
Originally Posted by muzu
Most of christians have belief that Jesus is GOD? i failed to understand if Jesus indeed is GOD, then how could he die? Can God die? Suppose, if he died for whatever reason, someone else there has to bring him back to life (reserruction). Is he God then?

Please through some light on this..
][/QUOTE]
Think of Jesus as the puppet, and God as the hand that animates it.

 

[Judge Roy Bean]

[/quote]Think of Jesus as the puppet, and God as the hand that animates him.[/quote]

yes, its my understanding, that the Lord Jesus is God's earth suit/image, so to speak.

 

[free spirit]

Quoted by MUZU
Numbers 23:19 - God is not a man, that he should lie. He is not a human, that he should change his mind. Has he ever spoken and failed to act? Has he ever promised and not carried it through?

Before Jesus God's integrity is beyond question. In other words He promised a saviour, so be patient and He will bring it to pass at the appointed time.

Job 25:4 - How then can man be justified with God?

By fulfilling the law

or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Jesus was made flesh born of a woman therefore He was made sin, because flesh and sin is one and the same: but He fulfilled the law therefore He was glorified by God.
Now Jesus the man has become one with God, establishing peace between God and men, this is what God intended to do from all eternity.

I know that you have no hope of understanding unless God allows you to understand. I will pray for you.

 

[muzu]

Yes... He intercedes for others.




He become a man like you and me, for we read in Philippians 2:6-11, "Who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. and being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore also God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

We also read in ACTS 2:32-36, "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand, until I make thine enemies a footstool for thy feet.' Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ this Jesus whom you crucified."




We read in ACTS 4:10-12, "Let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, who you crucified, whom God raised from the dead by this name this man stands here before you in good health. He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which become the very corner stone. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."




This is the reason you cannot understand. God can do anything, he is God.
By becoming a man God demonstrated to us his unfathomable love for humanity.

John 5:37-38

"And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent."

John 1:18: No man hath seen God at any time

Exodus 33:20: and he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

In the above verses, Jesus (pbuh) said no one had ever seen God or ever heard his voice and yet we know people did saw jesus(pbuh) which clearly proves that Jesus can't be God. :yes:

 

[Spirited]

I had been under the impression that a lot of this concept had come from "...I'm in the father and the father is in me...". I believe Jesus was the first true son of God, and he came to restore us to also be the sons and daughters of God. As for the ressurection, I do not believe it to be a litteral physical reanimation. I think that Jesus appeared to his followers spiritually, and that he was able to open them to see him in that form.

No, I do not think Jesus is God.

 

[free spirit]

Quoted by MUZU

John 5:37-38

"And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent."

Nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent

John 1:18: No man hath seen God at any time

Exodus 33:20: and he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

In the above verses, Jesus (pbuh) said no one had ever seen God or ever heard his voice and yet we know people did saw jesus(pbuh) which clearly proves that Jesus can't be God. :yes:

Yes... but you haven't read the following verses in John 14:6- 10. where we read among other things, "Jesus said to him, 'Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'show us the Father." In other words I believe that if you truly know Jesus you will know the Father.

You must uccept that Jesus is God and man, but while He was in the flesh He was a man, totaly man. However He was the exact representation of the Father.