Is multiculturalism a failed experiment?

[SkepticThinker]

In the UK, those that forced it upon us called it multiculturalism but in reality, they knew it was cultural cleansing. The EU is a big promoter of this.

The only power I have is free speech for the time being so do not ask me to provide the answers.

It is relatively new in the UK -

The "deliberate policy", from late 2000 until "at least February last year", when the new points based system was introduced, was to open up the UK to mass migration, he said.

Some 2.3 million migrants have been added to the population since then, according to Whitehall estimates quietly slipped out last month. (dated 23/10/2009)

(From the link above).

The only power you have is free speech so you can't answer my questions? What does that mean? You can't use your speech to answer my questions?

I'm guessing here that you want this specific "deliberate policy" to end. Is that correct? What do you suggest in its place? How do you intend to stop the people of the world from mixing together, as they have always done?

What do you mean by "cultural cleansing?"


I guess some people hear "migrants" and think "terrible people." I'm not one of them.

 

[Shad]

Doesn't change the fact that we are a very diverse culture of people from all different kinds of backgrounds from all over the world. We are already multicultural and have been for centuries. This isn't some new thing that just started happening. Immigration wasn't always as strict as it is now. We had a policy of open immigration when my ancestors arrived here from Russia. I shudder to think how they'd be treated today. But that's par for the course with immigrants, isn't it? Nobody liked the Irish when they started coming. Or the Italians. Or the Chinese. Or anybody, really. They were all going to ruin the country! Now it's Muslims that everyone is afraid of. A few years from now it will be somebody else. Humans have a tendency to overreact about this stuff.

It does change the fact that current immigration issues seen in the USA and Europe are not present here due to those policies.

My brother-in-law came from Trinidad and Tobago with his immediate family when he was a child. Most of his family now lives here, twenty years later. My father-in-law thinks they're low-life brown people, when in actuality, they're been quite successful.

I never said individuals could not be successful.

I work with all kinds of people who were once refugees from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, you name it. They are all hard working, successful people. Some native born Canadians would view them as lowlifes and potential terrorists. They're actually just people who want the same things everybody else does, which is why they came here in the first place.

So they used the refugee loophole to gain a status they would be denied as immigrants.

My point really is that multiculturalism isn't an experiment or some new thing we're trying out. It's something that just is, and has always been. People have always feared those who are new and different and foreign. That's just how we are, I guess. But multiculturalism isn't going to destroy the world or anything. It is the world.

Sure. However I am pointing out nations have different policies and those should not be ignored because the results impress you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It does change the fact that current immigration issues seen in the USA and Europe are not present here due to those policies.

Which issues?

I never said individuals could not be successful.

You referred to some types of immigration as “low-class” so my mind went there.

So they used the refugee loophole to gain a status they would be denied as immigrants.

No, they’re actual refugees, who fled for their lives from their home countries.

One of them told me he fled Iraq with his mother and brother when he was a child, leaving their father behind, thinking they’d see him again. That was thirteen years ago, and he hasn’t seen his father since. He figures he is most likely dead, which they would probably be if they had stayed.

Thanks for reinforcing my point that refugees are viewed as lowlifes though.

The point is that these people aren’t just criminals and leeches looking to immigrate and leech off the taxpayers, as many view them (some of my relatives included). In many, many cases, these people end up being more successful and contribute more to society than many people who were born and bred here. They blend in and contribute to the society of which they are now a part.

Sure. However I am pointing out nations have different policies and those should not be ignored because the results impress you.

Okay.

 

[Notanumber]

I like what this honest man says here.

Why should Sharia laws control me?

 

[Shad]

Which issues?

Massive illegal immigration, ghettos, low-class immigration, access to the welfare state, integration issues, Islamist, etc. Canada does not have many of these issues due to regulation which more often than not weed them out before boots hit the ground.

You referred to some types of immigration as “low-class” so my mind went there.

I mean economic low-class. Canada requires immigrants to have the funding to sustain themselves in Canada until they become a citizen. The low-class does not have these funds ergo it is next to impossible for them to immigrate. Non-citizens can not access most of the safety nets open to citizens.

No, they’re actual refugees, who fled for their lives from their home countries.

It is illegal for a refugee to work in Canada without a permit. More so if they became citizens it shows they used the loophole in refugee status to bypass immigration.

Thanks for reinforcing my point that refugees are viewed as lowlifes though.

Strawman and projection.

The point is that these people aren’t just criminals and leeches looking to immigrate and leech off the taxpayers, as many view them (some of my relatives included). In many, many cases, these people end up being more successful and contribute more to society than many people who were born and bred here. They blend in and contribute to the society of which they are now a part.

I was not talking specifically about crime. See the above.

Paying taxes is not my idea of contributing.

Did you ever consider why Canada does not have the problems seen in America and Europe? That is my point. You see the result but ignore the system behind it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Massive illegal immigration, ghettos, low-class immigration and access to the welfare state.

Ghettos have existed since the 1800s. Plenty of American citizens have lived in them. They’re not a new thing either.

What’s wrong with “low-class immigration?”

I mean economic low-class. Canada requires immigrants to have the funding to sustain themselves in Canada until they become a citizen. The low-class does not have these funds ergo it is next to impossible for them to immigrate. Non-citizens can not access most of the safety nets open to citizens.

Yes, I know. I think labeling it that way implies that they are low-class people. You’ve indicated above that letting such people immigrate is an issue.

It is illegal for a refugee to work in Canada without a permit. More so if they became citizens it shows they used the loophole in refugee status to bypass immigration.

Like I said, they came here as children. They’re grown men now. They fled for their lives to find a safe place to live and in doing so, had to leave a family member behind. Don’t bother telling me they aren’t true refugees or that they came here to buck the system.

Strawman and projection.

I don't think so but you can believe so if you like. What is it that you think I'm projecting?

You just implied that they pretended to be refugees in order to “bypass immigration” but whatever you say.

I was not talking specifically about crime. There is access to the welfare state which is larger in Europe and America. There are integration issues. Economic status. Education.

Everyone always thinks (and has always thought) that immigrants won’t integrate and become a part of the society they have joined and will try to get shariah law or whatever and what always happens is that they do integrate, within about 2 generations I think it is. The Irish did it. The Italians did it. My ancestors from Russia did it – I’m about as Canadian as they come. It’s all just fear mongering nonsense. Nobody wanted my ancestors here for all the reasons you've mentioned, plus they practiced a different religion. Same goes for the Irish and all the rest. Turns out all those fears were unjustified and irrational.

What about economic status and education?

 

[Shad]

Ghettos have existed since the 1800s. Plenty of American citizens have lived in them. They’re not a new thing either.

Ghettos are due to specific causes especially low income. Something to consider in regards to immigration

What’s wrong with “low-class immigration?”

As they do not have the funds to support themselves and become a burden to Canada. There is no reason why Canada has to pay those costs. Work-visas I am fine with for the low-class.

Yes, I know. I think labeling it that way implies that they are low-class people. You’ve indicated above that letting such people immigrate is an issue.

Yes, see above.

Like I said, they came here as children. They’re grown men now. They fled for their lives to find a safe place to live and in doing so, had to leave a family member behind. Don’t bother telling me they aren’t true refugees or that they came here to buck the system.

Refugee status contains a clause that the individual has the intent to return to their nation when peace is reestablished. If they become citizens it means they never held that intent thus abused the system. Ergo they do not want to return.

I don't think so but you can believe so if you like. What is it that you think I'm projecting?

As you are using low-class in a slander form not the economic one.

You just implied that they pretended to be refugees in order to “bypass immigration” but whatever you say.

If they become citizens they did. See above regarding the clause.

Everyone always thinks (and has always thought) that immigrants won’t integrate and become a part of the society they have joined and will try to get shariah law or whatever and what always happens is that they do integrate, within about 2 generations I think it is. The Irish did it. The Italians did it. My ancestors from Russia did it – I’m about as Canadian as they come.

Shocking. A European, and most likely Christian family, integrated into a European and Christian culture....

It’s all just fear mongering nonsense. Nobody wanted my ancestors here for all the reasons you've mentioned, plus they practiced a different religion. Same goes for the Irish and all the rest. Turns out all those fears were unjustified and irrational.

No I am talking about existing laws which are used now and have been for decades to establish why Canada does not have the issues of the USA and Europe.

What about economic status and education?

It means someone has money.... to pay for their own stuff.... currency, mulla, denaro... There is no point for Canada to take in people that can not pay their way. Education establishes the individual is certified to work within an industry; a skill set. Something useful beyond common labour. For example Canada has a doctor shortage not manual labour. Canada needs doctors so the government priorities doctors over people that say pave. A doctor is a massive net benefit to Canada. A paver isn't.

 

[Notanumber]

This wise man has the right idea.

 

[Estro Felino]

This wise man has the right idea.

Lol...many Italians want to quit Catholicism and become Buddhists after this-
our dear gentle Pope thinks Europe is for everyone

 

[Notanumber]

This modern day prophet was right about what he said 10 years ago.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Ghettos are due to specific causes especially low income. Something to consider in regards to immigration

Nobody seems to have cared too much about ghettos in the US over all these years, now we want to blame them on immigrants?

As they do not have the funds to support themselves and become a burden to Canada. There is no reason why Canada has to pay those costs. Work-visas I am fine with for the low-class.

There are many opportunities for social and economic mobility in Canada.

Like in the US, there are a lot of jobs that Canadians don’t want to do. Someone has to do them.

Yes, see above.

Refugee status contains a clause that the individual has the intent to return to their nation when peace is reestablished. If they become citizens it means they never held that intent thus abused the system. Ergo they do not want to return.

So when did Afghanistan and Iraq become safe places to live? Have the Taliban left Afghanistan?

Of course they don’t want to return to the war torn countries they fled. Said countries are still entrenched in war and strife, hence the reason they haven’t returned and/or have decided to become Canadian citizens. Should they have to just sit in limbo, waiting around to see if they’ll ever be able to go home, or should they be able to get on with their lives and try to make something with what they’ve got?

As you are using low-class in a slander form not the economic one.

Let’s not pretend this is not how they are viewed by many people.

If they become citizens they did. See above regarding the clause.

Not necessarily.

You don’t think having to leave family members behind and running for your life from your home country makes a person a refugee if they later decide that they want to stay in the country they migrated to? That doesn’t change the fact that they needed to seek refuge in the first place.

Shocking. A European, and most likely Christian family, integrated into a European and Christian culture....

Many non-Europeans have done it as well. People from Islamic countries have been migrating to Canada for over a century, for example.

No I am talking about existing laws which are used now and have been for decades to establish why Canada does not have the issues of the USA and Europe.

Doesn’t change the fact that people engage in fearmongering nonsense, when talking about refugees and immigrants, and always have, really.

It means someone has money.... to pay for their own stuff.... currency, mulla, denaro... There is no point for Canada to take in people that can not pay their way. Education establishes the individual is certified to work within an industry; a skill set. Something useful beyond common labour. For example Canada has a doctor shortage not manual labour. Canada needs doctors so the government priorities doctors over people that say pave. A doctor is a massive net benefit to Canada. A paver isn't.

Common labour is quite useful and quite necessary.

Access to education (that may not have been available to some immigrants in their home countries) creates opportunity and skill sets. Not having an education doesn’t mean a person is unintelligent and/or incapable of learning and making a positive contribution to society.

Funny how I keep hearing from all my right-wing friends that all our doctors are “foreigners.” Of course, they don’t like that because foreigners are taking over and all that. Hmm, it seems like immigrants just can’t win with some people.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I like what this honest man says here.

Why should Sharia laws control me?

I asked before and I'll ask again ....

Do you know any Muslims personally?

Also, one more, if you don't mind ...
Why do you think Muslims want to impose sharia law to control you?

 

[Shad]

Nobody seems to have cared too much about ghettos in the US over all these years, now we want to blame them on immigrants?

No, city planning. Major American cities had two major phases of development. 1920-30s and post WW2. During those periods city leadership which handled development and zoning created residential zone based on race by using property value. For areas for a white majority prices were set high enough to be outside the average income of blacks. LA is a prime example of this.

There are many opportunities for social and economic mobility in Canada.

Yes for Canadian not anyone that pleases. Canada's government has determined that immigrants must be a net benefit to Canada when applying not "maybe" or in 10 years.

Like in the US, there are a lot of jobs that Canadians don’t want to do. Someone has to do them.

No one "has" to do any of those jobs. Importing people to work at McD's is not a concern of the government.

So when did Afghanistan and Iraq become safe places to live? Have the Taliban left Afghanistan?

Neither is considered safe by UN nor my own standards. However by becoming a citizen show there is no intent to return. Heck I expect another war in Iraq after ISIS.

Of course they don’t want to return to the war torn countries they fled. Said countries are still entrenched in war and strife, hence the reason they haven’t returned and/or have decided to become Canadian citizens. Should they have to just sit in limbo, waiting around to see if they’ll ever be able to go home, or should they be able to get on with their lives and try to make something with what they’ve got?

I was talking about becoming a citizen.

Refugees can legally get a work-permit, citizenship is not required.

Let’s not pretend this is not how they are viewed by many people.

I am not other people so projecting how other people feel is pointless.

You don’t think having to leave family members behind and running for your life from your home country makes a person a refugee if they later decide that they want to stay in the country they migrated to? That doesn’t change the fact that they needed to seek refuge in the first place.

Which shows no intent to return.

Many non-Europeans have done it as well. People from Islamic countries have been migrating to Canada for over a century, for example.

I know. However those numbers which tiny in comparison until recent decades.

Doesn’t change the fact that people engage in fearmongering nonsense, when talking about refugees and immigrants, and always have, really.

Which I am not doing so is irrelevant to the points I am making

Common labour is quite useful and quite necessary.

Sure but that is businesses problems not government.

Access to education (that may not have been available to some immigrants in their home countries) creates opportunity and skill sets. Not having an education doesn’t mean a person is unintelligent and/or incapable of learning and making a positive contribution to society.

They can get their education in their home nation then apply. If, maybes, could be, are horrible criteria for immigration.

Funny how I keep hearing from all my right-wing friends that all our doctors are “foreigners.” Of course, they don’t like that because foreigners are taking over and all that. Hmm, it seems like immigrants just can’t win with some people.

I have no issue with foreign doctors. The last 4 of my GPs are from SA. Heck one of them changed my treatment of asthma with amazing results. Like night and day. I can now jog without thinking and feeling like I am going to die

 

[Anthem]

Why don't we name this the thread for all racists to compete on who is the most racist one?

Congratulations to all racists boastig here about their racistic country - the rest of us we truly envy you, we just hide it by making all these intellectual points.

 

[Notanumber]

I had no idea that Ireland has been so affected by multiculturalism.

Who would have thought that they now have FGM clinics?

 

[Notanumber]

It would seem that multiculturalism = dualism.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I assume that anyone who voted "yes" in the poll haven't tried Korean short ribs like the ones I'm having right now.

Multiculturalism is very tasty.

 

[Notanumber]

I assume that anyone who voted "no" in the poll is not very far sighted.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I assume that anyone who voted "no" in the poll is not very far sighted.

Multiculturalism has been the official policy in Canada since the 1960s and it acknowledged something that was happening culturally well before that. Exactly how long do you think multiculturalism needs to create whatever nightmare scenario you fear?

... or is "non-white people acting as if they have full rights of citizenship" the nightmare scenario you fear?

 

[Notanumber]

Multiculturalism has been the official policy in Canada since the 1960s and it acknowledged something that was happening culturally well before that. Exactly how long do you think multiculturalism needs to create whatever nightmare scenario you fear?

... or is "non-white people acting as if they have full rights of citizenship" the nightmare scenario you fear?

I do not fear the colour of anyone’s skin. I fear their ideology.

BTW, it is not an irrational fear or phobia.