Is Nationalism Bad?

[Valjean]

Pride, of necessity, puts one in a superior class. Pride in country is pleasure derived from feeling being better than other countries.
This elitism doesn't contribute to harmonious international -- or interpersonal, for that matter -- relationships. Historically it's led to some very messy business.

 

[darkendless]

I knew this was coming at some point. Be a nationalist or get out

Nice assumption there but you fail. Thanks for assuming me to be a racist too.

It seems that to you pride = everyone else is inferior. Thats just weak and rediculous. Perhaps you should support young earth creationism which also required zero comprehension skills.

What i meant with pride is pride in having a wonderful country and pride in a nation. Are you not proud of being American? Is there nothing fortunate about being American that you are rpoud of, that you feel lucky for having?

By your reasoning we should change Australia day to "Australians are racists day"

 

[Valjean]

The word is meaningless if all are identical. One pea in a pod having pride in himself would be "weak and rediculous." {sic}
By definition it's a sense of superiority.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Dark Endless did I say anything about racism? You just brought that into the mix.

 

[darkendless]

Dark Endless did I say anything about racism? You just brought that into the mix.

You said this:

Be a nationalist or get out .

 

[darkendless]

The word is meaningless if all are identical. One pea in a pod having pride in himself would be "weak and rediculous." {sic}
By definition it's a sense of superiority.

So its wrong to be grateful of freedoms and benefits countries like ours have because it automatically makes us elitists?

Righto.

 

[Valjean]

Gratitude is a horse of a different color.:unicorn:

 

[Rainbow Mage]

You said this:

Because you said this:

Nationalism is ok to a point. It cannot be a bad thing to be proud of your nation and your way of life. If you're not proud, why live there?

What are you implying here?

 

[darkendless]

Because you said this:
What are you implying here?

Its so easy to immigrate around these days (especially between western countries), so why live in a country you are not proud to be a citizen of? Oppurtunity is everywhere so there must be a reason for people to stay in the country they live in. If i didn't enjoy Australia i'd head to England or move back to New Zealand but i'd miss Australia because i'm proud to be an Aussie (except when England slaughters us in the Ashes).

Why live in a country where you are not grateful for the benefits you enjoy as a citizen?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Its so easy to immigrate around these days (especially between western countries), so why live in a country you are not proud to be a citizen of? Oppurtunity is everywhere so there must be a reason for people to stay in the country they live in. If i didn't enjoy Australia i'd head to England or move back to New Zealand but i'd miss Australia because i'm proud to be an Aussie (except when England slaughters us in the Ashes).

Why live in a country where you are not grateful for the benefits you enjoy as a citizen?

Being proud to be a citizen is different then nationalism. Surely you must realize that.

 

[Valjean]

Its so easy to immigrate around these days (especially between western countries), so why live in a country you are not proud to be a citizen of? Oppurtunity is everywhere so there must be a reason for people to stay in the country they live in. If i didn't enjoy Australia i'd head to England or move back to New Zealand but i'd miss Australia because i'm proud to be an Aussie (except when England slaughters us in the Ashes).

Why live in a country where you are not grateful for the benefits you enjoy as a citizen?

Not that easy to emigrate, darkendless.

 

[LuisDantas]

Nationalism is ok to a point. It cannot be a bad thing to be proud of your nation and your way of life. If you're not proud, why live there?

Among other possibilities:

- because that is where one's loved ones live.
- because one lacks the means to move elsewhere.
- due to hope of improving the situation of the place.

I have still to hear a good reason to nurture nationalism at all.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Among other possibilities:

- because that is where one's loved ones live.
- because one lacks the means to move elsewhere.
- due to hope of improving the situation of the place.

I have still to hear a good reason to nurture nationalism at all.

I pretty much agree with Luis on this

 

[darkendless]

Among other possibilities:

- because that is where one's loved ones live.
- because one lacks the means to move elsewhere.
- due to hope of improving the situation of the place.

I have still to hear a good reason to nurture nationalism at all.

To protect freedom, tolerance, equality, individual rights etc.

Isn't that part of the whole Liberal Nationalism thing?

 

[LuisDantas]

To protect freedom, tolerance, equality, individual rights etc.

Partial exception made to individual rights (and only due to matters of bureaucracy and logistics) none of those things benefit from Nationalism, far as I can tell. Most do indeed suffer from it.

Isn't that part of the whole Liberal Nationalism thing?

I hadn't even heard of Liberal Nationalism before.

 

[darkendless]

Partial exception made to individual rights (and only due to matters of bureaucracy and logistics) none of those things benefit from Nationalism, far as I can tell. Most do indeed suffer from it.




I hadn't even heard of Liberal Nationalism before.

From wikipedia:

Liberal nationalism is a kind of nationalism identified by political philosophers who believe in a non-xenophobic form of nationalism compatible with liberal values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights.[26] Ernest Renan[27] and John Stuart Mill[28] are often thought to be early liberal nationalists. Liberal nationalists often defend the value of national identity by saying that individuals need a national identity in order to lead meaningful, autonomous lives[29] and that liberal democratic polities need national identity in order to function properly

 

[LuisDantas]

That is certainly better than xenophobic nationalism. It does not follow that it is the best approach.

I greatly value John Stuart Mill generaly, but in this matter I fear his ideas are obsolete.

Not too surprising, since he is after all a 19th century author who never lived through the two World Wars (or, on the positive side, through the League of Nations and the UNO).

 

[Reverend Rick]

I would rather fight and die than belong to a one world government. I hope and pray it never happens in my life time.

 

[Pegg]

Many seem to believe that nationalism is a good and wonderful thing, but given what history has to show, I'd argue otherwise. One can be a good citizen of their country without being a nationalist. History shows that nationalism is how dictators always maintain power. Mussolini and Hitler used it, Stalin used it, the Roman Emperors used it. Nationalism can be a tool of great evil. Both of my religions discourage nationalism, because my loyalty is to Kemet, not the physical nation of Egypt, but the nation in our hearts. My loyalty is also to the sangha, the happy home of all living beings. I don't personally see nationalism as all that great. I think it's used for terrible ends.

What are your thoughts?

i agree, nationalism breeds racism and it causes division.

for the world to be united, nationalism must be destroyed.

 

[LuisDantas]

I would rather fight and die than belong to a one world government. I hope and pray it never happens in my life time.

Oh, but is that the alternative to the current situation? Or maybe it is more like no government as such?


Either way, I am puzzled by this feeling of yours. I have met it before, and that makes it that more intriguing. Why would a one world government be much different from any government - particularly that of a big country? And why would the difference be so huge as to justify such strong feelings?