Is owning Guns good or bad?

[Comprehend]

Some interesting recent British news articles: (not exactly what the Brits on this thread have been representing)

police cut jobs as murder rate soars

It also seems that the Brits are getting creative with the lack of Guns, maybe we need to ban Axe's too!!!
Axe murder

And I must add one of my favorite British quotes of all time:

"If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?"

- Prince Phillip speaking on banning guns in the U.K.:biglaugh:

 

[NoahideHiker]

Check out my new gun. i picked up a Taurus PT-111 in 9mm. I wanted a nice small gun for concealed carry but did not want to go below a 9mm and I wanted good carring capacity. Got it for a song and a dance too. Very comfortable carried in the inside the waistband holster.

G-d bless America!

 

[Pardus]

Do you think owning guns is good or bad.
Depends on the reason you own one, obivously.

Would you personally ever own a gun? why?
Nah, i tried firing pistols, probably because i have a natural talent i'm not interested.

Is an armed populace good or bad? Does it protect against despotism?
If it decreases the need for a standing army, i say go for it, but as for protecting against the government, not a hope in hell.

 

[michel]

Some interesting recent British news articles: (not exactly what the Brits on this thread have been representing)

police cut jobs as murder rate soars

It also seems that the Brits are getting creative with the lack of Guns, maybe we need to ban Axe's too!!!
Axe murder

And I must add one of my favorite British quotes of all time:

"If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?"

- Prince Phillip speaking on banning guns in the U.K.:biglaugh:

Please don't be so frivollous; we are not hypocrites. We know that gangland will manage to get hold of guns, axes, cleavers..whatever they want, to help them feel like "powerful men". We have crime, just like every other country. Every death is one too many.

We just don't want to make it any easier for someone to get hold of a weapon. That is my stance on guns. As you say, anything can be used as a weapon; I was asked to remove my wooden tooth-picks from my jacket pocket when gboarding an aeroplane a couple of years ago.

I mean, toothpicks, a tube of instant glue, and I could have tried to break into the cockpit with my lance.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Some interesting recent British news articles: (not exactly what the Brits on this thread have been representing)

police cut jobs as murder rate soars

It also seems that the Brits are getting creative with the lack of Guns, maybe we need to ban Axe's too!!!
Axe murder

And I must add one of my favorite British quotes of all time:

"If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?"

- Prince Phillip speaking on banning guns in the U.K.:biglaugh:

Both these are examples of criminal activity... Shooting and killing each other.
The population at large is rarely involved, and certainly not in much danger.

Guns knives swords etc are already banned in the UK.
Target rifles can be Kept locked in a safe in a gun club and signed for before and after use. pistols can no longer be owned, even for target use . Olympic shooters use club owned target pistols.


Strathclyde is one of the most dangerous areas in Scotland... that has been the case all my life.. Their preferred tool is the Knife or razor. Though they are now taking to using guns in their fights.
East London is a dangerous area for black youth crime... but mostly it is against their own gangs. it has little impact on the rest of the population.

Such areas are patrolled by armed police. all police wear body armour.

 

[lilithu]

Do blind people have the right to drive cars?

Wow PureX, you don't think that the inability to see is a compelling reason to not be allowed to drive?

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

It's sad the whenever someone mentions gun control, the gun lobby immediately interpret that as taking everyone's guns away. They insist on portraying all gun control efforts in the most extreme way, and then site instances of little old ladies being beaten and robbed by roving bands of thugs as though giving her the right to carry an automatic machine gun would have been the logical solution to the problem.

It's idiotic.

The problem isn't the guns, and it isn't the responsible gun owners. The problem is idiots and criminals possessing and using guns. So when we talk about gun control, we need to talk about ways that will help us keep guns out of the hands of idiots and criminals. And we can't do that when the gun lobby immediately jumps to foolish extremes.

Look at what has happened to private gun ownership in Australia, and England, and then try to convince me that the position is an extreme one.

B.

 

[michel]

When I was a kid and my father owned a fish farm, he taught me how to shoot a rifle and I thought it was fun. I got quite good at shooting tin cans and such off fence posts. I can see why someone would like hunting, target practice, or just guns.

Having said that, it doesn't matter whether or not you or I can understand why someone would want to own a gun. It's not the case that someone else's liberty is dependant upon whether or not we can understand or empathize. I don't understand why anyone would want to listen to Shania Twain. That doesn't mean that people should need my approval or understanding to own her albumns.

In the U.S. at least, it isn't the case that people have to explain why they should have the right to do something. Rather the burden is on the other side, if you want to take away someone's liberty, you have to explain why there is a compelling reason to do so.

HOW DARE YOU!!!!

I love Shania Twain's music!!!:biglaugh:

As far as the comments you make are concerned, I can understand your reasoning - even if I don't subscribe to it.

In the U.S. at least, it isn't the case that people have to explain why they should have the right to do something. Rather the burden is on the other side, if you want to take away someone's liberty, you have to explain why there is a compelling reason to do so

Whilst I think the above is a laudable sentiment, I would have thought that the relatives of people shot by accident, or on purpose by someone who is deranged, wou;ld have been sufficient to allow the conclusion to be made that the ready availablity of Guns is not a particularly "good" idea.

I was just trying to find a opicture that a member here posted of a "New wonderful Gun" of his - it was almost as big as he; that picture shocked me more than anything. It almost inferred that the size of the gun was somehow related to his ego.........

 

[standing_alone]

I would have thought that the relatives of people shot by accident, or on purpose by someone who is deranged, wou;ld have been sufficient to allow the conclusion to be made that the ready availablity of Guns is not a particularly "good" idea.

But the guns aren't the problem. It's the people using them. If you play around with a gun or don't know how to properly use one, if someone gets shot, that's not the gun's fault, it's your own. People should be educated in gun safety. But taking guns away from all of society, including those people who use them for hunting and sport shooting, because some irresponsible people that stupidly injure themselves or others with a gun (a minority of gun-owners, I would comfortably guess) is just collectively punishing all gun owners. It's stupid, an overreaction, and an affront to personal freedom, as granted by our Constitution here in the United States. Why should good, responsible hunters and sport shooters (and other responsible gun owners) not be allowed to own guns and practice their sports because some idiot that can't handle a gun?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

But the guns aren't the problem. It's the people using them.

This is an often quoted fallacy... If the guns are not available they can't be used to shoot people. If gun control were effective in sorting out who was responsible and who was not, no one would ever be shot... this is plainly not true.

and an affront to personal freedom,

All laws limit personal freedom. What is so special about guns, that they should be exempt?

Why should good, responsible hunters and sport shooters (and other responsible gun owners) not be allowed to own guns and practice their sports because some idiot that can't handle a gun?

As we have seen recently, even Government members are good at shooting others whilst hunting....How many other hunting "Accidents " are there each year?
It is not Just idiots who are unsafe with guns.

 

[standing_alone]

This is an often quoted fallacy... If the guns are not available they can't be used to shoot people. If gun control were effective in sorting out who was responsible and who was not, no one would ever be shot... this is plainly not true.

But regardless of whether or not they are available to the public, criminals are still getting them. Doesn't look like the UK is free of gun crime. And even without guns, people find other ways to hurt each other. Heck, I could kill someone with my own hands if I wanted to. I guess I'd rather allow the hunters and sport shooters and other responsible adults to own guns because I don't think that a minority that can't handle the responsibility should cause the responsible majority to be punished and deprived of taking part in the hobbies they already have been participating in with no problem.

All laws limit personal freedom.

Uh huh.

What is so special about guns, that they should be exempt?

Gun ownership is a right guaranteed under the United States Constitution, for starters. I don't have a problem with certain regulations surrounding gun ownership; what I have a problem with is banning all guns in general because of an irresponsible minority. Hunters, sport shooters, and other law-abiding, responsible gun owners shouldn't have their guns taken away because some moron that shot someone playing around with a gun (something all responsible gun owners know is a no-no) or because some criminal who would have gotten a gun or used another weapon regardless shot somebody.

I guess here in the US, we trust others to be responsible more so than the UK and for the most part, we handle our responsibilities quite well.

As we have seen recently, even Government members are good at shooting others whilst hunting....How many other hunting "Accidents " are there each year?
It is not Just idiots who are unsafe with guns.

So because someone has a hunting accident, we should take guns away from all hunters, even though the majority of them can hunt just fine and not accidently shoot somebody? Those who have had hunting accidents should face consequences for their actions, not every single hunter.

Maybe we should just ban everything that has a potential to harm someone or be used to harm someone. Let's have one giant authoritarian nanny-state that coddles us along through life, telling us every little thing we can and can not do, can and cannot own, so we don't have to accept any responsibilities for ourselves.

 

[lilithu]

Whilst I think the above is a laudable sentiment, I would have thought that the relatives of people shot by accident, or on purpose by someone who is deranged, wou;ld have been sufficient to allow the conclusion to be made that the ready availablity of Guns is not a particularly "good" idea.

As I said in another post, most Americans have a general resistance to being "legislated" into safety.

After someone got drunk on a plane and caused a commotion, Senator Feinstein tried to introduce legislation that would make it illegal to drink on planes. I rarely drink and possibly have never drunk on a plane but I thought this was one of the stoopidest things she's ever tried to do. If a child is hurt falling off a slide, should we ban all slides? If someone chokes on a cough drop, should we ban all cough drops? Things happen. No matter how much you try to control life, bad things happen. I'd rather run a slightly increased chance of death while living freely (within reason of course) than run a slightly decreased chance of death while living under excessive constraints.

Again, it is not the case that everyone in America is running around waving and shooting guns. This is a matter of principle.

I was just trying to find a opicture that a member here posted of a "New wonderful Gun" of his - it was almost as big as he; that picture shocked me more than anything. It almost inferred that the size of the gun was somehow related to his ego.........

Oh I agree with you completely, for some there is definately a virile/phallic thing going. And I agree it's comical.

 

[lilithu]

As we have seen recently, even Government members are good at shooting others whilst hunting....How many other hunting "Accidents " are there each year?
It is not Just idiots who are unsafe with guns.

How does the Dick Cheney incident show that it isn't just idiots?

 

[evearael]

Both these are examples of criminal activity... Shooting and killing each other.
The population at large is rarely involved, and certainly not in much danger.

So even without guns there is rampant violence... it's just isolated to the 'bad' people. Why not address the problems that create the crime in the first place?

This is an often quoted fallacy... If the guns are not available they can't be used to shoot people. If gun control were effective in sorting out who was responsible and who was not, no one would ever be shot... this is plainly not true.

Bad person with a gun intends on harming another, perhaps with a gun. Bad person without a gun intends on harming another, not with a gun. How precisely does removing the gun fix the problem of a bad person intent on harming another? Believe it or not, people aren't dropping like flies left and right despite the fact that we two firearms for every three people... and looking at the violence in comprehend's links it doesn't seem that removing firearms has done anything to attack the root of the problem, which isn't remotely surprising. So why do want the good and responsible gun owners in a different country to lose their firearms? (Again, I have no issue with requiring proper training in firearm safety and legal issues... as well as laws that would restrict felons and disturbed individuals from owning firearms.) How is some lunatic murdering with an axe any better than some lunatic murdering with a gun? Society has failed to address the lunatic who IS the problem. It's like putting a bandaid on a broken arm... nothing has been accomplished. The bone hasn't been set and cannot properly heal. As a society, we need to address the mentally unstable and violent citizens, we need to address (emotionally, financially, et cetera) unstable homes, we need to address the poverty and desperation that feeds crime... and all of this must begin with the individual, the family and the community. Solutions must address the unique dynamics at play in the specific area.

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

If you can't handle the responsibility, don't buy them, if you are a crook you will have to resort to illegal means to get them.
Bottom line is "can we trust guns in the hands of the people?" considering %99.95 of all legally obtained firearms are never used in a crime I'd say yes. Punish the criminals not the law abiding.

We don't need "daddy" government to tell us what we should think and feel, we are adults -act like one. Legal or illegal, I will always own guns if I want to because there is no legitimate reason why I shouldn't be able to- I really don't know what else there is to say.

 

[PureX]

Look at what has happened to private gun ownership in Australia, and England, and then try to convince me that the position is an extreme one.

B.

England and Australia have nothing to do with us. If the gun lobby in the U.S. keeps forcing every discussion to the extreme, they will eventually train people to think only in extreme terms, and they're liable to bring about the very thing they most fear; a total ban. We need calm logic, and reason, not a bunch of "Chicken Littles" running around screaming that we need to ban all gun, or screaming that we need to allow all guns to all people.

I'd like to see both sides pull their heads out of their butts and start thinking about rational and reasonable methods of getting and keeping guns out of the hands of idiots and criminals. That is the one thing we can all agree on, so we have a common goal. It shouldn't be all that hard to figure out how to achieve it.

 

[PureX]

Wow PureX, you don't think that the inability to see is a compelling reason to not be allowed to drive?

You don't think that being an alcoholic or drug attick is a compelling reason not to be allowed to own a gun? How about someone with an ager control problem? How about being mentally handicapped, or emotionally unballanced? How about being a really, really lousy shot?

My point is that this isn't about a person's "right" to own a gun. it's about a person's ability to use one responsibly and safely. That's what regulation is all about: it's about REGULATING our rights according to reason, common sense, and the public good. Gun control is not gun elimination. It's just regulation.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The second ammendment is a right not a privilege.

Gun control, does little to control criminals. It is akin to smacking one child for the actions of another.

 

[PureX]

The second amendment is a right not a privilege.

True, but it's not an absolute mandate from God. We have to regulate all our rights, according to common sense, according to the intent and spirit of the guiding principals of our nation, and according to the public good.

Gun control, does little to control criminals. It is akin to smacking one child for the actions of another.

Gun control isn't supposed to control criminals. It's supposed to limit their access to guns. Right now they can get them very, very easily, and in many cases even legally. And once they commit a crime with a gun, they suffer little social retribution for having done so. That's like rewarding a bad child for being bad, by ignoring what they've done wrong.

Most of the deaths caused by guns are not the result of hardened criminals making a concerted effort to by illegal guns on the black market and then using them to kill innocent citizens. That happens, but most killings are not of that type. Most killings are of the "idiot" variety, where someone gets drunk, or drugged up, and decides to shoot their ex-friend or ex-girlfriend or some other drunken idiot in a bar for completely irrational reasons that not even they would believe if they were sober. Or, some idiot junkie needs to get high, and robs the next door neighbor, or the market down the street, and gets scared or confused or just goes out of his mind on the adrenaline and ends up shooting someone. These kinds of stupid impulse crimes make up the vast majority of gun deaths in the U.S., and many of them would be stopped if the idiots involved didn't have such ridiculously easy access to a gun.

The whole point of gun control, is to try and keep guns out of the hands of exactly these kinds of unstable idiots. There is nothing particularly difficult about doing this, and it need not deny responsible citizens their right to own a gun. All that is required is that the gun lobby pull their heads out of their own butts long enough to recognize that we do have a real problem with guns and gun violence in this country, and that these problems can be solved without everyone arming themselves to the teeth. Believe it or not, we could solve our gun violence problem in this country WITHOUT MORE GUNS and WITHOUT MORE GUN VIOLENCE. All it requires is some smart and tough regulation, and the willingness to implement it.

 

[spacemonkey]

I didn't read all 11 pages of this thread, so I appoligize if I am repeating what has already been stated, but to blame guns on deaths is just rediculous. If people didn't have access to guns they would just starting killing each other with knives, swords, crossbows, and stones again the gun is just an implement.