Is prayer a form of magic?

[Dunemeister]

There's many different types of magic. All magic is'nt performed in ritual or with certain techniques, and a wiccan will tell you that even if you cast the spell right it dose'nt guarantee results. Prayer is just like certain forms of magic. In prayer your invoking the god/s you believe in. The same exact thing is done in certain forms of magic.

I realize that the techniques may fail. The point is that prayer is not reducible to technique, whereas magic is.

As I said, they may look the same from a distance. If you choose to look in detail through personal practice, you'll find the differences for yourself.

 

[Twig pentagram]

Yes...

I'm sorry, I forgot where I was going with that.

 

[Twig pentagram]

I realize that the techniques may fail. The point is that prayer is not reducible to technique, whereas magic is.

As I said, they may look the same from a distance. If you choose to look in detail through personal practice, you'll find the differences for yourself.

How is prayer not reducible to technique?

 

[MissAlice]

Guess it depends on the person and their own personal belief. I personally equate prayer to talking to my cats. They obviously have no idea what I'm saying but for some reason I need "something" to talk to even if it's just myself. I think it may be healing in some ways when no one has anyone to talk to at least for me.

 

[Twig pentagram]

If your scriptures or religion tells you to pray to god/s, but stay away from magic then it's basically saying only do magic through or for your god and magic that is pleasing to your god. That's what it sounds like to me.

 

[Dunemeister]

How is prayer not reducible to technique?

How is love not reducible to technique?

 

[Misty]

I think prayer is a phenomenon which can work positively from time to time. I doubt it matters whether you pray to a deity or an object. I don't think God answers prayer.

 

[Dunemeister]

I think prayer is a phenomenon which can work positively from time to time. I doubt it matters whether you pray to a deity or an object. I don't think God answers prayer.

More accurately, you don't think there's a god who ignores prayers; you think there's no god at all. But strictly speaking, that point's moot. This thread is about whether prayer and magic are the same. I presume you think they are and that they are both equally (in)efficacious.

 

[Misty]

More accurately, you don't think there's a god who ignores prayers; you think there's no god at all. But strictly speaking, that point's moot. This thread is about whether prayer and magic are the same. I presume you think they are and that they are both equally (in)efficacious.

I think magic is hocus pocus, I think prayer is a phenomenon.

 

[lemo]

I think prayer is a form of magic, what do you think?

Yes it can be. But the form of prayer to me is being silent, to be with my inner being. It needs no words - it has no words. Meditation is prayer because you are giving yourself the opportunity to be alone....so yes it is a form of magic in a sense - and a blissful one at that.

 

[doppelganger]

I think prayer is a form of magic, what do you think?

Petitioning prayer is a form of magic, yes. Spell ("word") casting ("throwing") is the attempt to influence powers through ones words. In the hands of someone who understands how language works it can be powerful. In the hands of someone who does not, they are likely to end up hurting and disappointing themselves and others.

 

[Green Kepi]

I think prayer is a phenomenon which can work positively from time to time. I doubt it matters whether you pray to a deity or an object. I don't think God answers prayer.

Maybe He answers 3 ways...Yes, No, Wait. I can handle the yes's...the No's...I don't like...but its the Wait's that drives me crazy...that's when I tend to think that He hasn't heard me and then...I don't know how long I have to wait. He may be trying to teach me something and I am impatient....

 

[Misty]

Maybe He answers 3 ways...Yes, No, Wait. I can handle the yes's...the No's...I don't like...but its the Wait's that drives me crazy...that's when I tend to think that He hasn't heard me and then...I don't know how long I have to wait. He may be trying to teach me something and I am impatient....

It always amuses me that some Christians excuse God for not answering their prayers by saying it said 'no' or 'wait'! What sort of deity would supposedly deny the earnest prayers of parents for their dying child, but grant the prayers of those wanting a fine day for the church fete? Far better to believe the deity has no input in this world, imo.

 

[Green Kepi]

It always amuses me that some Christians excuse God for not answering their prayers by saying it said 'no' or 'wait'! What sort of deity would supposedly deny the earnest prayers of parents for their dying child, but grant the prayers of those wanting a fine day for the church fete? Far better to believe the deity has no input in this world, imo.

A type of God that's mind does things which aren't 'our' ways...He tells me that "all things" work for the good of those who love Him. I may not think so...but that's where my faith in Him comes into play. I understand that is not good enough for you...but for me its great. As for the dying child...that's a hard one because we cannot see things thru His eyes. However, that child, at the moment of death, would be in Heaven...a much better place. But...I know grieving parents don't understand. I disagree that it is "far better" to believe the deity gives no input...

 

[Misty]

A type of God that's mind does things which aren't 'our' ways...He tells me that "all things" work for the good of those who love Him. I may not think so...but that's where my faith in Him comes into play. I understand that is not good enough for you...but for me its great. As for the dying child...that's a hard one because we cannot see things thru His eyes. However, that child, at the moment of death, would be in Heaven...a much better place. But...I know grieving parents don't understand. I disagree that it is "far better" to believe the deity gives no input...

I read my bible daily, to see if I am missing anything, but so far the more I read the more evil the god character appears to be. If I believed it to be a real entity, instead of a work of fiction, I wouldn't trust it an inch.

 

[Green Kepi]

I read my bible daily, to see if I am missing anything, but so far the more I read the more evil the god character appears to be. If I believed it to be a real entity, instead of a work of fiction, I wouldn't trust it an inch.

Do you as an agnostic believe only that human knowledge is limited to experience? If so, maybe that's why He appears so evil...?

 

[doppelganger]

Do you as an agnostic believe only that human knowledge is limited to experience? If so, maybe that's why He appears so evil...?

You don't recognize that this same problem applies to all of your beliefs about "God" and the Bible?

 

[Misty]

Do you as an agnostic believe only that human knowledge is limited to experience? If so, maybe that's why He appears so evil...?

If the stories of the flood and all the other acts of violence attributed to the deity are true I would say all that was pretty evil. As for reputedly getting a young unmarried girl pregnant that is paedophilia!

 

[lemo]

If the stories of the flood and all the other acts of violence attributed to the deity are true I would say all that was pretty evil. As for reputedly getting a young unmarried girl pregnant that is paedophilia!

Ehhhhhhhhhhh?

 

[Green Kepi]

If the stories of the flood and all the other acts of violence attributed to the deity are true I would say all that was pretty evil. As for reputedly getting a young unmarried girl pregnant that is paedophilia!

Wow...never heard it put that way before...how do you believe evil came into this world? And are you calling the Holy Spirit a pedophile?