Is premarital sex really a sin?

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
McNap, The GOD of the Scriptures who Created all things made the Rules/laws to be followed by HIS Creatures and is NOT "double-minded".

The Creator said the Male and the Female(married) were to be "one flesh", Just as the Female was created from the "flesh" of man.

GOD called man's sexual relationship between other than one's wife(female)--SIN.

Rom.13: isn't speaking of erotic/love, but brotherly--Philo/love.

Well, according to Matthew Jesus said:

But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. (Mat. 5:32)

This means you can either commit adultary with anyone who is married/divorced or you have to be married/divorced yourself.

If I am single and have never been married and I have seks with a single girl who has never been married... how can it be a sin?

McNap, When a single---male and female has sex with each other, they have joined their bodies into that "one relationship" as GOD said. They are considered "married" by GOD. At that point---NO SIN. However, if they then have sex with another person---ADULTERY is committed---SIN( one of the Decalogue).

A sin is a violation of one of the 10 commandments.

I can even have seks (or marry) with a divorced girl as long as her ex-husband put her away for the cause of fornication. I guarantee you, it's no sin if I have seks with such a divorced girl. If she loved her ex-husband well enough, she wouldn't do any sexual immorality. One does sexual immorality because there is someone outside the marriage whom you love more. Jesus means you should marry the one you love the most. Therefore he makes exceptions. Why would you stay married to your wife anyway if you know she has more love for someone else?
I agree with the topic starter.
She said she believes premarital seks is no sin.

McNap, re-think your example above. Matt.5:32 is NOT saying that which you are proposing. Even if you were the one that the put away wife for fornication loved more that the husband which put her away.

As for the brotherly-love-thing you mentioned... if practising homosexuals have charity for every brother and even for irreligious people they are not sinning?

I mean, I spread the gospel on the streets and sometimes people ask me questions regarding their gay-friends.
Or suppose some gay brothers remain celibate thanks to brothers like you and they fall in love with one another in our church because we have allowed them there for their celibacy, then what should we do according to you?
Because I'm not going to hinder anyone else his love.
Or what if I tell the gospel to an atheistic gay boy that already has a relationship with another gay boy and he wants to accept Jesus in his heart...
You think I will force him to return to singleness? Or that I make him feel guilty?
Jesus said: All those who the Father gives me will come to me. Him who comes to me I will in no way throw out. (John 6:37)

That verse is true, but your application is wrong scripturally.
Those Ten Commandments which you admit points out SIN is the guidance for one's actions and relationship to the Almighty GOD (and to one another) who gave them.

The Same procedure for the sins of stealing, lying, not honoring one's parents also apply to Sexual sins. Confession of the sin, Repentance of that SIN, Submitting to the Will of the Father.
Condoning of, enabling one to continue in SIN is to be a party to that which is an abhorrence to GOD.
Charity(love) is in the speaking the truth on the streets. GOD does/is LOVE, but HE, also, hates these things Prov.6:16-19, "An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, "

Where does the "love for most" rest with/in obedience to GOD or defense of unrepentant sinful mankind?

 

[viole]

Is premarital sex really a sin? The Bible condemns sexual immorality but not premarital sex. I personally do not believe that premarital sex is a sin. What do you believe?

What do you mean the Bible does not condemn premarital sex?

Deuteronomy 22:20-21

20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Nada]

Yes.It is.

 

[sincerly]

Yes.It is.

To finish your: ""Yes. It is."" ...Sin according to the Scriptures.

 

[Nada]

To finish your: ""Yes. It is."" ...Sin according to the Scriptures.

Ok,thanks

 

[Levite]

What do you mean the Bible does not condemn premarital sex?

Deuteronomy 22:20-21

20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Ciao

- viole

FWIW, that had nothing to do with premarital sex per se, but in the culture of the time, a minor girl living under her father's roof was deemed the property of her clan-- all minor children, irrelevant of gender, in fact, were deemed the property of their clans in those days-- and if she had sex, but then misrepresented herself to her clan as a virgin, and her clan then arranged a marriage for her with contract and bride-price based on her virginity, once found out, the clan was held to be collectively responsible for fraud and theft, for trying to pass off a non-virgin as a virgin. However, if she had sex but was honest about it with her clan, and never claimed to be a virgin, then she was liable for no punishment. Though if the man or boy she'd had sex with had not betrothed her, he was liable to pay a fine to her father's household. And if she were not a minor living under her father's roof, she could do as she pleased, so long as she did not misrepresent herself in future marriage negotiations as a virgin (she would then be liable for fraud and theft).

As all of those cultural situations have changed, and as today we do not condone minor children having sex anyhow-- especially with adults-- this particular constellation of laws has become disused.

It is only in Christianity (and certain ultra-Orthodox ascetic communities) that verses like these are misconstrued to be blanket bans on premarital sex.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by viole View Post
What do you mean the Bible does not condemn premarital sex?

Deuteronomy 22:20-21

20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Ciao

- viole

FWIW, that had nothing to do with premarital sex per se, but in the culture of the time, a minor girl living under her father's roof was deemed the property of her clan-- all minor children, irrelevant of gender, in fact, were deemed the property of their clans in those days-- and if she had sex, but then misrepresented herself to her clan as a virgin, and her clan then arranged a marriage for her with contract and bride-price based on her virginity, once found out, the clan was held to be collectively responsible for fraud and theft, for trying to pass off a non-virgin as a virgin. However, if she had sex but was honest about it with her clan, and never claimed to be a virgin, then she was liable for no punishment. Though if the man or boy she'd had sex with had not betrothed her, he was liable to pay a fine to her father's household. And if she were not a minor living under her father's roof, she could do as she pleased, so long as she did not misrepresent herself in future marriage negotiations as a virgin (she would then be liable for fraud and theft).

As all of those cultural situations have changed, and as today we do not condone minor children having sex anyhow-- especially with adults-- this particular constellation of laws has become disused.

It is only in Christianity (and certain ultra-Orthodox ascetic communities) that verses like these are misconstrued to be blanket bans on premarital sex.

Levite, scripturally, your "FWIW" is "Folly"---the very thing that the Scriptures warn against. The " Ought not to be done".
That Deut,22:20-21 account was concerning premarital sex.
I see that you are condoning that which GOD gave permission to eradicate by stoning those who engaged in such activity. Marry or die.

You may think that "culture" and "times" eradicate GOD'S Laws, but you are scripturally wrong. Un-confessed and un-repented of sins in today's society will be Judged by GOD.

Those Deuteronomy Laws were valid 2000 years ago and are today. However, "toleration" is practiced and the carrying out of the sentence is "deferred" to the judgment day---on many of them.

 

[Levite]

Originally Posted by viole View Post
What do you mean the Bible does not condemn premarital sex?

Deuteronomy 22:20-21

20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Ciao

- viole



Levite, scripturally, your "FWIW" is "Folly"---the very thing that the Scriptures warn against. The " Ought not to be done".
That Deut,22:20-21 account was concerning premarital sex.
I see that you are condoning that which GOD gave permission to eradicate by stoning those who engaged in such activity. Marry or die.

You may think that "culture" and "times" eradicate GOD'S Laws, but you are scripturally wrong. Un-confessed and un-repented of sins in today's society will be Judged by GOD.

Those Deuteronomy Laws were valid 2000 years ago and are today. However, "toleration" is practiced and the carrying out of the sentence is "deferred" to the judgment day---on many of them.

And, yet again, I remain uninterested in fundamentalist literalist Christian "readings" of Jewish text.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Is premarital sex really a sin? The Bible condemns sexual immorality but not premarital sex. I personally do not believe that premarital sex is a sin. What do you believe?

From my perspective, there are no "sins" per-se, because "sins" are violations of a divine law from a deity. In deism, deity does not speak or interact with its creation, and so it is impossible to know what its wishes are. It has, however, given us the ability to use reason to determine for ourselves, using our own moral compasses, what is "right" and what is "wrong." Premarital sex harms no one so long as it is consensual, therefore, to me, premarital sex is not wrong.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Is premarital sex really a sin? The Bible condemns sexual immorality but not premarital sex. I personally do not believe that premarital sex is a sin. What do you believe?

Read the bible, people...

Paul said that in order to keep from sexual immorality, get married..he said

1Corin 7:8-9
8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

If being married is the solution to not being able to "control yourself", then obviously being unmarried and unable to control yourself (fornicating) is improper as a Christian.

Hey, I know, it is tough. It is tough thing to accept in this life. But, God's word is what it is.

 

[Muffled]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Originally Posted by Muffled View Post
I don't believe same gender couples can be married in anything but name only.

Hi SS, True, the One who issued the containing prohibitions is the one who will judge actions.



HI Muffled, The "True"! was in acknowledging that you and I will not be the "judge", that will be the GOD who made the laws.

I believe God is in me.

 

[Muffled]

Just for he record. I "looked lustfully" upon many gals in my early years of Junior High, and has NO "fornication" with any of them (sigh).

Any guy that suggests differently is either a drone worker bee slaved to a queen bee, or has no nuts.

You were saying...?

I believe looking with interest is a natural state. Looking with lust is a sin.

 

[Muffled]

Again, fortunately, I remain uninterested in fundamentalist Christian readings of Jewish text. As, I also believe, God is similarly uninterested in fundamentalism of any sort.

I beleive I like fundamentalism in some cases.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

A denial of a GOD with rules/laws and there is no right or wrong.

I deny a god with rules/laws, yet I have not:
1.) Killed anyone
2.) Stolen anything
3.) Gotten into a fight
4.) Done any drug other than smoke one single time
4.) Gotten arrested
5.) Been suspended from school (or even sent to the principal's office)

I must be doing this whole irreligion thing wrong. It's almost as if lack of belief in a dictator-like god does not indicate lack of a moral compass. Hmm...:sarcastic

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post Levite, scripturally, your "FWIW" is "Folly"---the very thing that the Scriptures warn against. The " Ought not to be done".
That Deut,22:20-21 account was concerning premarital sex.
I see that you are condoning that which GOD gave permission to eradicate by stoning those who engaged in such activity. Marry or die.

You may think that "culture" and "times" eradicate GOD'S Laws, but you are scripturally wrong. Un-confessed and un-repented of sins in today's society will be Judged by GOD.

Those Deuteronomy Laws were valid 2000 years ago and are today. However, "toleration" is practiced and the carrying out of the sentence is "deferred" to the judgment day---on many of them

And, yet again, I remain uninterested in fundamentalist literalist Christian "readings" of Jewish text.

"Jewish texts"??? Where in those Scriptural texts do you find that the Creator GOD is not the GOD of ALL mankind who seek to have the Creator GOD as their GOD??? You can NOT find such a acknowledgement.

Num.15:14-16, "And if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; as ye do, so he shall do. One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD. One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you."

Lev.19:33-34, "And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

Levite, to remind you, those who were gathered at the foot of Sinai when the Creator GOD gave the Decalogue on those tablets of stone and spoke to "all the Camp"(the Israelites and that "Mixed Multitude"), GOD referenced that group as "MY PEOPLE" AND "THEIR GOD".

 

[sincerly]

From my perspective, there are no "sins" per-se, because "sins" are violations of a divine law from a deity. In deism, deity does not speak or interact with its creation, and so it is impossible to know what its wishes are. It has, however, given us the ability to use reason to determine for ourselves, using our own moral compasses, what is "right" and what is "wrong." Premarital sex harms no one so long as it is consensual, therefore, to me, premarital sex is not wrong.

Hi TL, "your perspective" and "to me" are indications that you have, as the serpent said, "become as god". What ever you decide/choose to believe is as concluded.

However, that will not change what was written in the Scriptures.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

Hi TL, "your perspective" and "to me" are indications that you have, as the serpent said, "become as god". What ever you decide/choose to believe is as concluded.

However, that will not change what was written in the Scriptures.

What is written in the scriptures is irrelevant to me anyway. If I believed that the scriptures were true, then I would have followed them, but I do not. My god, (the deist god) has, instead, given me the ability to think for myself, not a 1,000 page rule-book written by primitive desert-dwellers.

 

[sincerly]

What is written in the scriptures is irrelevant to me anyway. If I believed that the scriptures were true, then I would have followed them, but I do not. My god, (the deist god) has, instead, given me the ability to think for myself, not a 1,000 page rule-book written by primitive desert-dwellers.

And so do you testify/witness.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

And so do you testify/witness.

No, they can figure it out for themselves. There is no need for me to. There is no eternal reward if I do and there is no eternal torture if I don't. I'll tell them what I believe, and if they agree, great, and if they don't... also great.

 

[Levite]

"Jewish texts"??? Where in those Scriptural texts do you find that the Creator GOD is not the GOD of ALL mankind who seek to have the Creator GOD as their GOD??? You can NOT find such a acknowledgement.

Num.15:14-16, "And if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; as ye do, so he shall do. One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD. One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you."

Lev.19:33-34, "And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

Levite, to remind you, those who were gathered at the foot of Sinai when the Creator GOD gave the Decalogue on those tablets of stone and spoke to "all the Camp"(the Israelites and that "Mixed Multitude"), GOD referenced that group as "MY PEOPLE" AND "THEIR GOD".

None of the commandments you quoted have anything to do with the Torah being Jewish text.

Which it is. It was written by Jews, for Jews, in the Jewish language. As for the "mixed multitude," the non-Israelites who came out of Egypt with the Israelites, they accepted the covenant at Sinai along with the Israelites-- thus converting to Judaism.

The fact that centuries after it was written, our sacred texts were appropriated by non-Jews and used for their own ends confers absolutely no authenticity to the idea that somehow Jewish text belongs rightfully to anyone but Jews.

God is indeed the God of all humanity, and for that reason, presumably He is capable of communicating what He wants to various peoples, in their own ways, after the fashion of their own cultures. There is really no reason to go around taking the sacred texts of other people's cultures; but if one really has to do it, at least have the courtesy to acknowledge that the text is taken, and did not originate as some sort of transcultural, humanistic phenomenon.