Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

[outhouse]

but Muslims have no proof it was God inspired. .

And reality dictates it was plagairized.

 

[paarsurrey]

It seems like semantics, of course there is no proof Muhammad literally sat down and copied the torah and the bible word for word. It seems far more likely that he had plagiarized from what he had heard from others around him and put his own spin on it. I have no proof of course, but Muslims have no proof it was God inspired. I'll go with Occam's razor until proven otherwise.

As I have written earlier; Quran corrects the mistakes of Torah; and brings forth and highlights the teaching that had been hidden by the Torah scribes.

In that sense it does make criticism of Torah; and every book of criticism has to mention the original characters of the book being criticized and the teaching being criticized ; as also quotations from the book being criticized without that the criticism is no ethical.

Quran supports where it is due and criticizes with the norms of ethics of criticism where it is due.

And Quran is very clear about it.

This is not plagiarism; not at all.

Regards

 

[outhouse]

As I have written earlier; Quran corrects the mistakes of Torah;

Yet you cannot show ONE!!!! single example with any credibility what so ever.


Your only promoting fanaticism

 

[paarsurrey]

And reality dictates it was plagairized.

Then please go ahead and prove that the verses of the twenty chapters of Quran that I have posted in this thread have been plagiarized from Torah, as you allege.

Would you? Please

Regards

 

[outhouse]

Quran corrects the mistakes of Torah, yet you cannot show one single example.

 

[no-body]

As I have written earlier; Quran corrects the mistakes of Torah; and brings forth and highlights the teaching that had been hidden by the Torah scribes.

In that sense it does make criticism of Torah; and every book of criticism has to mention the original characters of the book being criticized and the teaching being criticized ; as also quotations from the book being criticized without that the criticism is no ethical.

Quran supports where it is due and criticizes with the norms of ethics of criticism where it is due.

And Quran is very clear about it.

Like I said Muhammad and his followers put their own spin on it.

This is not plagiarism; not at all.

Regards

There is no proof one way or another. It's a nice opinion you have. I have mine. I'll go with the one that seems more likely to human nature than supernatural.

 

[outhouse]

There is no proof one way or another.

Actually there is.

All evidence points to blatant plagiarization.

They claim supernatural sources, thus, they loose by default. That is not how credible history is determined.

Credible history already states they took the information and plagiarized it.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

I give below Holy Quran : Chapter 95: Al-Tin:

[95:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[95:2] By the Fig and the Olive,
[95:3] And by Mount Sinai,
[95:4] And by this Town of Security,
[95:5] Surely, We have created man in the best make;
[95:6] Then, if he works iniquity, We reject him as the lowest of the low,
[95:7] Except those who believe and do good works; so for them is an unending reward.
[95:8] Then what is there to give the lie to thee after this with regard to the Judgment?
[95:9] Is not Allah the Best of judges?

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.

Quranic teachings and commandments are elaborate in itself; it is a good tree its branches reach into heaven (truthful Revelation) and its roots are firmly fixed in the Earth (reason, rationality and human psyche); these are not and cannot be dependent or based on corrupted stories of Torah.

Regard

 

[outhouse]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? :

yes.

Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'


This states they are factually not historical figures.


The Exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most histories of ancient Israel no longer consider information about the Exodus recoverable or even relevant to the story of Israel's emergence.

No exodus happened, it factually has no historicity.

In either case, the Book of Exodus forms a "charter myth" for Israel: Israel was delivered from slavery by Yahweh and therefore belongs to him through the covenant

Charter myth means it is pseudo history.


and despite differing details they agree on Israel's Canaanite origins.

Historians ALL agree on Israelites Canaanite origin, since the exodus is mythology.


Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The tradition of Moses as a lawgiver and culture hero of the Israelites can be traced to the Deuteronomist source, corresponding to the 7th-century Kingdom of Judah.

This states we see it was a literary creation

That means an exodus of the scale described in the Torah would have been impossible

exodus impossible

While the general narrative of the Exodus and the conquest of the Promised Land may be remotely rooted in historical events, the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated

Moses as written factually has no historicity.

 

[vskipper]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

I give below Holy Quran : Chapter 95: Al-Tin:

[95:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[95:2] By the Fig and the Olive,
[95:3] And by Mount Sinai,
[95:4] And by this Town of Security,
[95:5] Surely, We have created man in the best make;
[95:6] Then, if he works iniquity, We reject him as the lowest of the low,
[95:7] Except those who believe and do good works; so for them is an unending reward.
[95:8] Then what is there to give the lie to thee after this with regard to the Judgment?
[95:9] Is not Allah the Best of judges?

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.

Quranic teachings and commandments are elaborate in itself; it is a good tree its branches reach into heaven (truthful Revelation) and its roots are firmly fixed in the Earth (reason, rationality and human psyche); these are not and cannot be dependent or based on corrupted stories of Torah.

Regard

Still ignoring Muhammad's exposure to Christian & Jewish teachings (through listening)

 

[gnostic]

Take it from some one who knows Arabic, Quraan is not written by any human.

However you don't need to know Arabic to be sure of that.

Maybe you can look up how some people tested the Quraan to see if it was written by a human or not.

You don't need to read it in Arabic, to see that it was written by man (technically men). You are being so-fixated by the language itself, that you are completely the contents.

By comparing the stories within the Qur'an itself, against the stories in the Jewish and Christian scriptures and traditions, you can see that the Qur'an is using flawed, inconsistent and disjointed, and sometimes even more embellished than Hebrew/Christian version.

The Qur'an on Solomon, about controlling jinns, is similar to man-made Jewish folklore and fable of Solomon controlling demons and spirits, in the Aggadah (or Sefer ha-Aggadah, stories drawn from Midrash).*

Never has there lived a man privileged, like Solomon, to make the demons amenable to his will. God endowed him with the ability to turn the vicious power of demons into a power working to the advantage of men. He invented formulas of incantation by which diseases were alleviated, and others by which demons were exorcised so that they were banished forever. As his personal attendants he had spirits and demons whom he could send hither and thither on the instant. He could grow tropical plants in Palestine, because his ministering spirits secured water for him from India.

In the Aggadah, it also write of Solomon being able to control or command animals, particularly an eagle, which was large enough to carry him, flying the king where ever he want to.

As the spirits were subservient to him, so also the animals. He had an eagle upon whose back he was transported to the desert and back again in one day, to build there the city called Tadmor in the Bible This city must not be confounded with the later Syrian city of Palmyra, also called Tadmor. It was situated near the "mountains of darkness," the trysting-place of the spirits and demons. Thither the eagle would carry Solomon in the twinkling of an eye, and Solomon would drop a paper inscribed with a verse among the spirits, to ward off evil from himself.

And before Solomon were marshalled his hosts,- of Jinns and men and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks.

The Qur'an make no mention of the king flying on the eagle's back, but it does have Solomon having the ability to understand the speech of animals, particularly of birds and ants, which doesn't appear in the Aggadah.

At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."

The thing about both quotes from the English translation of the Aggadah (The Legends of the Jews, which I had used), are embellishment and exaggeration of man-made Jewish fable, which don't appeared in the canonical version of Solomon, in 1 Kings 1-11, Tanakh or the Christian Bible.

Then there is the Qur'an 34:12, in which Solomon can control the winds, can also be found in the Aggadah.

And to Solomon (We made) the Wind (obedient)

The king ordered the wind to cease from blowing, with the word: "Return!"

These alone (story of Solomon in the Qur'an) and in comparisons to the Midrashic/Aggadahic version that were known in Muhammad's time, is clearly indicative to me that Muhammad must have heard these stories from Jews living in Arabia at that time. It is clear that Muhammad borrowed and modify from one of these sources, and dupe his gullible followers, and all Muslims afterward into believing such fantasy came from your god. And reading both the Aggadah and Qur'an, would also mean that this scripture - the Qur'an - is also man-made.

-----

Source

Aggadah:

The Legends of the Jews, vol. 4, chapter 5 (Solomon), translated by Loius Ginzberg, 1909. (Look under the headings - SOLOMON MASTER OF THE DEMONS and LESSONS IN HUMILITY, for the quotes I had used.)
​

 

[no-body]

Actually there is.

All evidence points to blatant plagiarization.

They claim supernatural sources, thus, they loose by default. That is not how credible history is determined.

Credible history already states they took the information and plagiarized it.

Of course I'm being very flexible with my definition of "proof" I know. By scientific analysis, yes of course it is most definitely 99.9% plagiarized (or paraphrased to use a friendlier word, in Muhammads own words) but they are always going to use that .1% doubt that science leaves open. It's like arguing with someone who believes the roosters crow brings the sun up.

 

[paarsurrey]

Like I said Muhammad and his followers put their own spin on it.

I don't get you exactly; what do you mean by spin here? Please express yourself fully in your own words.

Regards

 

[ShivaFan]

Namaste

Because of my ties to Kolkatta (Calcutta), actually I am fairly literate in Islam. But obviously as a Hindu, I do not know all of Islam.

From my hearings of Koran, I would say it's actual origins are much more ancient that thought, living as secret songs and "heard" before it was written.

Nana is a Goddess who may have had mystics keep some of this. She is Nana who lives on another sky place and the Moon crosses her map on certain seasons. Maybe.

Some Koran is not human. There is a Brahman called Allah.

Om Namah Sivaya

 

[Sabour]

You don't need to read it in Arabic, to see that it was written by man (technically men). You are being so-fixated by the language itself, that you are completely the contents.

By comparing the stories within the Qur'an itself, against the stories in the Jewish and Christian scriptures and traditions, you can see that the Qur'an is using flawed, inconsistent and disjointed, and sometimes even more embellished than Hebrew/Christian version.

The Qur'an on Solomon, about controlling jinns, is similar to man-made Jewish folklore and fable of Solomon controlling demons and spirits, in the Aggadah (or Sefer ha-Aggadah, stories drawn from Midrash).*

I have provided the explanation for what you are saying many times.

Yet I would say it once again. All the prophets who came with scriptures ( Torah and Injeel) were muslims. Muhammad peace be upon him was the last prophet and the Quraan renews the msgs of the Torah and the Injeel. Quraan is still preserved for Arabic is still a living language.

 

[outhouse]

All the prophets who came with scriptures ( Torah and Injeel) were muslims..

this is not true

provide credible sources!

 

[McBell]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

I have so far quoted following twenty short but full chapters from Quran in this thread:



Our Jewish (or non-Jewish) friends have not been able to quote or reference places of Torah where any of the verses of these twenty Quranic chapters have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from.

We can therefore conclude with 100% certainty that 0% of verses of these chapters of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Torah.

Quran is, therefore, the Word Revealed from G-d and authored by Him and is original.

Regards

:biglaugh:

It has been decided that since you did not make the font large enough and chose the wrong color for your bold empty claim that your bold empty claim is a nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[McBell]

As I have written earlier; Quran corrects the mistakes of Torah; and brings forth and highlights the teaching that had been hidden by the Torah scribes.

In that sense it does make criticism of Torah; and every book of criticism has to mention the original characters of the book being criticized and the teaching being criticized ; as also quotations from the book being criticized without that the criticism is no ethical.

Quran supports where it is due and criticizes with the norms of ethics of criticism where it is due.

And Quran is very clear about it.

This is not plagiarism; not at all.

Regards

Do you know the name of the book that will correct the mistakes god made in the Koran?

Since what you are claiming here is that god did not get it right the first time...

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

I give below The Holy Quran : Chapter 94: Al-Inshirah:

[94:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[94:2] Have We not opened for thee thy bosom,
[94:3] And removed from thee thy burden
[94:4] Which had well nigh broken thy back,
[94:5] And We exalted thy name?
[94:6] Surely there is ease after hardship.
[94:7] Aye, surely there is ease after hardship.
[94:8] So when thou art free, strive hard,
[94:9] And to thy Lord do thou attend whole-heartedly.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted or as comes latest from a posters now “spinned” from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.


Regard

 

[paarsurrey]

Namaste

Because of my ties to Kolkatta (Calcutta), actually I am fairly literate in Islam. But obviously as a Hindu, I do not know all of Islam.

From my hearings of Koran, I would say it's actual origins are much more ancient that thought, living as secret songs and "heard" before it was written.

Nana is a Goddess who may have had mystics keep some of this. She is Nana who lives on another sky place and the Moon crosses her map on certain seasons. Maybe.

Some Koran is not human. There is a Brahman called Allah.

Om Namah Sivaya

Thanks for your input in the thread.

Yes , Brahma or Brahman is a name of Allah (the One-True-God); all good names/attributes without a blemish are His.

Please express fully other points mentioned by your in your post. Interesting

Regards