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Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Post#2033
outhouse said:
"Archaeologists in Jerusalem find city's oldest known settlement 7000 years old
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...wn-settlement/ar-BBpC2MK?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=iehp
Israeli authorities announced Wednesday they had uncovered findings proving for the first time the existence of an established human settlement in Jerusalem as far back as 7,000 years ago.
So much for the idea the earth is 6000 years old that goes against facts and reason and logic."​
Paarsurrey wrote:
"Quran does not mention that the earth is 6000 years old. So your contention that Quran copied from Bible/Torah proved baseless. Right?"

The post is given here for its relevance in this thread.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: Post#1174
[71:17]‘And has placed the moon therein as a light, and made the sun as a lamp?

56297.jpg
@ Kirran also, Post #1246

Jer. 31:34
34Thus saith the LORD, Who giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, who stirreth up the sea, that the waves thereof roar, the LORD of hosts is His name:
35If these ordinances depart from before Me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before Me for ever.
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1131.htm


The verse of the Torah Jer. 31:34 (quoted by friend Tumah
51255.jpg
) is about Israel not about Noah.
The above verse of the Quran is about Noah (Quran Chapter Noah, 71:17).
So, the contention of friend Tumah is incorrect and misleading.

Regards
 
Last edited:

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
One is most humbly requested to please prove that the verses of Quran given in Post #1280 have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality. one could safely conclude. Correct me if I am wrong. Right? Please
Regards
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
One is most humbly requested to please prove that the verses of Quran given in Post #1280 have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality. one could safely conclude. Correct me if I am wrong. Right? Please
Regards
So your assertion is that anything that can't be shown to be copied from another source must have been written by God?
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
G-d claims it in Quran, and it is truthful.
Regards
So your adjusted claim is "anything that can't be shown to be copied from another source and in it, God claims to have written it must have been written by God"?

Have you read The Book Thief? In it "Death" claims to be telling the story, and the story isn't copied. I guess Zusak's book is truthful and Death wrote it.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Comparison of a scriptures is to be made with other scriptures.
It is wrong to compare a textbook of science with a book of fiction. Right?
Regards
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Comparison of a scriptures is to be made with other scriptures.
It is wrong to compare a textbook of science with a book of fiction. Right?
Regards
which is how others view the Quran...a book of fiction. This is why I won't compare it with the Torah, just Harry Potter.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 69: Al-Haqqah [6]

[69:51]And, verily, it will be asource ofregret for the disbelievers.
69:52]And surely, it is the true certainty.
[69:53]So glorify the name of thy Lord, the Great.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=69&verse=51

Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
In other our friends here confirm that the verses given in the previous post have not been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world?
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 68: Al-Qalam [1]

[68:1]In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[68:2]By the inkstand andbythe pen andbythat which they write,
[68:3]Thou art not, by the grace of thy Lord, a madman.
[68:4]And for thee, most surely, there is an unending reward.
[68:5]And thou dost surely possess high moral excellences.
[68:6]And thou wilt soon see and theytoowill see
[68:7]Which of you is afflictedwith madness.
[68:8]Surely, thy Lord knows best those who go astray from His way, and He knows best those who follow guidance.
[68:9]So comply not with the wishes of those who rejectthe truth.
[68:10]They wish that thou shouldst be pliant so that they mayalsobe pliant.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=68

Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Regards
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
which is how others view the Quran...a book of fiction. This is why I won't compare it with the Torah, just Harry Potter.
I quoted to him a number of verses that contained identical content which he dismissed for not being word for word repetitions.
I'm not sure he's equipped for debate...
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I quoted to him a number of verses that contained identical content which he dismissed for not being word for word repetitions.
I'm not sure he's equipped for debate...
Even the subject matter was different.
English language consists of 26 letters in its alphabetic. Torah in English has used all of them. If somebody uses English alphabetic in a book, is he copying/plagiarizing the Torah?
One's contention amounted to something like that.
Regards
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
If a student of mine takes a passage written about George Washington in a textbook, and takes the entire sentence and uses it but changes the subject to Abraham Lincoln, he has still lifted the line, regardless of the subject.
 

Ex Muslim

Member
Your comments please

Regards

Quran Surah 21 verses 51-70

51. And indeed We bestowed aforetime on Ibrahim (Abraham) his (portion of) guidance, and We were Well-Acquainted with him (as to his Belief in the Oneness of Allah, etc.).

52. When he said to his father and his people: "What are these images, to which you are devoted?"

53. They said:"We found our fathers worshipping them."

54. He said: "Indeed you and your fathers have been in manifest error."

55. They said: "Have you brought us the truth, or are you one of those who play about?"

56. He said: "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who created them and of that I am one of the witnesses.

57. "And by Allah, I shall plot a plan (to destroy) your idols after you have gone away and turned your backs."

58. So he broke them to pieces, (all) except the biggest of them, that they might turn to it.

59. They said: "Who has done this to our aliha (gods)? He must indeed be one of the wrong-doers."

60. They said: "We heard a young man talking (against) them who is called Ibrahim (Abraham)."

61. They said: "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may testify."

62. They said: "Are you the one who has done this to our gods, O Ibrahim (Abraham)?"

63. [Ibrahim (Abraham)] said: "Nay, this one, the biggest of them (idols) did it. Ask them, if they can speak!"

64. So they turned to themselves and said: "Verily, you are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers)."

65. Then they turned to themselves (their first thought and said): "Indeed you [Ibrahim (Abraham)] know well that these (idols) speak not!"

66. [Ibrahim (Abraham)] said: "Do you then worship besides Allah, things that can neither profit you, nor harm you?

67. "Fie upon you, and upon that which you worship besides Allah! Have you then no sense?"

68. They said: "Burn him and help your aliha (gods), if you will be doing."

69. We (Allah) said: "O fire! Be you coolness and safety for Ibrahim (Abraham)!"

70. And they wanted to harm him, but We made them the worst losers.


Midrash B'reishi(t) Rabbah 38:13

"And Haran died in the presence of his father Terah" (Gen. 11:28). Rabbi Hiyya the grandson of Rabbi Adda of Yaffo [said]: Terah was a worshipper of idols. One time he had to travel to a place, and he left Abraham in charge of his store. When a man would come in to buy [idols], Abraham would ask: How old are you? They would reply: fifty or sixty. Abraham would then respond: Woe to him who is sixty years old and worships something made today - the customer would be embarrassed, and would leave. A woman entered carrying a dish full of flour. She said to him: this is for you, offer it before them. Abraham took a club in his hands and broke all of the idols, and placed the club in the hands of the biggest idol. When his father returned, he asked: who did all of this? Abraham replied: I can't hide it from you - a woman came carrying a dish of flour and told me to offer it before them. I did, and one of them said 'I will eat it first,' and another said 'I will eat it first.' The biggest one rose, took a club, and smashed the rest of them. Terah said: what, do you think you can trick me? They don't have cognition! Abraham said: Do your ears hear what your mouth is saying? Terah took Abraham and passed him off to [King] Nimrod. They said [to the king]: let us worship the fire. Abraham said to them: [rather] let us worship water, for it extinguishes fire. Nimrod agreed: let us worship water. Abraham continued: if so, let us worship the clouds, which provide water. Nimrod agreed: let us worship the clouds. Abraham continued: if so, let us worship the winds that scatter the clouds. Nimrod agreed: let us worship the winds. Abraham continued: if so, let us worship humans who are filled with wind [air]. Nimrod replied: You're just speaking words - I only worship fire. I will throw you into it, and the God you worship can save you from it. Haran was hidden and was of two minds, saying [to himself]: if Abraham is victorious, I will say I am with Abraham, and if Nimrod is victorious, I will say I am with Nimrod. When Abraham was through into the fiery furnace and saved, they asked him [Haran]: who are you with? He replied: I am with Abraham. They took him and threw him into the fire, and his insides burned up and he died before his father Terah, as it says: "And Haran died in the [lit.] on the face of his father Terah" (Gen. 11:28).

http://www.sefaria.org/Berei****_Rabbah.38.13?lang=en&layout=lines&sidebarLang=all

The story contains a significant number of plagiarized verses.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Quran Surah 21 verses 51-70

51. And indeed We bestowed aforetime on Ibrahim (Abraham) his (portion of) guidance, and We were Well-Acquainted with him (as to his Belief in the Oneness of Allah, etc.).

52. When he said to his father and his people: "What are these images, to which you are devoted?"

53. They said:"We found our fathers worshipping them."

54. He said: "Indeed you and your fathers have been in manifest error."

55. They said: "Have you brought us the truth, or are you one of those who play about?"

56. He said: "Nay, your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who created them and of that I am one of the witnesses.

57. "And by Allah, I shall plot a plan (to destroy) your idols after you have gone away and turned your backs."

58. So he broke them to pieces, (all) except the biggest of them, that they might turn to it.

59. They said: "Who has done this to our aliha (gods)? He must indeed be one of the wrong-doers."

60. They said: "We heard a young man talking (against) them who is called Ibrahim (Abraham)."

61. They said: "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may testify."

62. They said: "Are you the one who has done this to our gods, O Ibrahim (Abraham)?"

63. [Ibrahim (Abraham)] said: "Nay, this one, the biggest of them (idols) did it. Ask them, if they can speak!"

64. So they turned to themselves and said: "Verily, you are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers)."

65. Then they turned to themselves (their first thought and said): "Indeed you [Ibrahim (Abraham)] know well that these (idols) speak not!"

66. [Ibrahim (Abraham)] said: "Do you then worship besides Allah, things that can neither profit you, nor harm you?

67. "Fie upon you, and upon that which you worship besides Allah! Have you then no sense?"

68. They said: "Burn him and help your aliha (gods), if you will be doing."

69. We (Allah) said: "O fire! Be you coolness and safety for Ibrahim (Abraham)!"

70. And they wanted to harm him, but We made them the worst losers.


Midrash B'reishi(t) Rabbah 38:13

"And Haran died in the presence of his father Terah" (Gen. 11:28). Rabbi Hiyya the grandson of Rabbi Adda of Yaffo [said]: Terah was a worshipper of idols. One time he had to travel to a place, and he left Abraham in charge of his store. When a man would come in to buy [idols], Abraham would ask: How old are you? They would reply: fifty or sixty. Abraham would then respond: Woe to him who is sixty years old and worships something made today - the customer would be embarrassed, and would leave. A woman entered carrying a dish full of flour. She said to him: this is for you, offer it before them. Abraham took a club in his hands and broke all of the idols, and placed the club in the hands of the biggest idol. When his father returned, he asked: who did all of this? Abraham replied: I can't hide it from you - a woman came carrying a dish of flour and told me to offer it before them. I did, and one of them said 'I will eat it first,' and another said 'I will eat it first.' The biggest one rose, took a club, and smashed the rest of them. Terah said: what, do you think you can trick me? They don't have cognition! Abraham said: Do your ears hear what your mouth is saying? Terah took Abraham and passed him off to [King] Nimrod. They said [to the king]: let us worship the fire. Abraham said to them: [rather] let us worship water, for it extinguishes fire. Nimrod agreed: let us worship water. Abraham continued: if so, let us worship the clouds, which provide water. Nimrod agreed: let us worship the clouds. Abraham continued: if so, let us worship the winds that scatter the clouds. Nimrod agreed: let us worship the winds. Abraham continued: if so, let us worship humans who are filled with wind [air]. Nimrod replied: You're just speaking words - I only worship fire. I will throw you into it, and the God you worship can save you from it. Haran was hidden and was of two minds, saying [to himself]: if Abraham is victorious, I will say I am with Abraham, and if Nimrod is victorious, I will say I am with Nimrod. When Abraham was through into the fiery furnace and saved, they asked him [Haran]: who are you with? He replied: I am with Abraham. They took him and threw him into the fire, and his insides burned up and he died before his father Terah, as it says: "And Haran died in the [lit.] on the face of his father Terah" (Gen. 11:28).

http://www.sefaria.org/Berei****_Rabbah.38.13?lang=en&layout=lines&sidebarLang=all

The story contains a significant number of plagiarized verses.
After only a few verses I already knew which Midrash you were going to bring. And then as I kept reading, I couldn't believe just how similar it gets, down to the part about Abraham blaming the big one.
 

Ex Muslim

Member
After only a few verses I already knew which Midrash you were going to bring. And then as I kept reading, I couldn't believe just how similar it gets, down to the part about Abraham blaming the big one.

I know it's so easy to see for everybody apart from Muslims. I'm impressed that you knew which Midrash it related to :)
 
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