Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
1956 and 1968. Russian troops crushed democratic movements in Czechoslovakia and Hungary.
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Is Russia had right to afraid from West agenda? ?
- Thread starter Godobeyer
- Start date
1956 and 1968. Russian troops crushed democratic movements in Czechoslovakia and Hungary.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
@Mock Turtle , why gang up against Russia?
Yes, we take the sensibilities of our neighbors into consideration.
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This doesn't really address the issue I raise, which is
that NATO isn't conquering & annexing any countries.
Russia is. The invasion of Crimea & Ukraine differs
greatly from NATO actions....
List of NATO operations - Wikipedia
If invading & annexing Ukraine is justifiable, based upon
NATO's actions, then this rationale would also justify
invading & annexing other non-NATO former Soviet
satellite countries, eg, Latvia, Estonia. Moreover, Putin
has also threatened Norway, Sweden, & Finland.
Where's it end?
No doubt, Putin would describe these
as having liberated the people.
The NATO did nothing back then...because they could not care less about Budapest or Prague.
There is a protest song called Budapest youth that say " nobody comes to our aid. The world remained out of it, watching sitting on the edge".
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A question.
If South Tyrol decides through referendum to join the Federal Republic of Austria...will the US intervene against Austria or they will mind their own business, this time ?
Or South Tyrol is South Tyrol...and Crimea is Crimea?
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Russia had installed nuclear weapons in Cuba. These
are first strike weapons.
Ukraine has no nukes or first strike capability. So it poses
no threat to Russia....except to Russian soldiers who invade
Ukraine to kill Ukrainians.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Oddly, no words of condemnation for Russia's actions.
@Revoltingest
I am not condoning Russia's behavior.
But it seems to me that you are speaking of NATO as an immaculate, holy, sinless organization.
And the OP mentioned Iraq, Libya, Syria.
With all due respect, of course.
I am not condoning Russia's behavior.
But it seems to me that you are speaking of NATO as an immaculate, holy, sinless organization.
And the OP mentioned Iraq, Libya, Syria.
With all due respect, of course.
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I have been saying that Stalinism is evil...
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Former Warsaw Pact nations seem to prefer NATO membership, even with its warts. That should tell all the Putler trolls here something if they would get their blinders off.
What is the significance of this criticism of NATO?
(Was NATO even capable of doing anything in that era?)
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
What about Putlerism?
I don't know.
What is the significance of this hypothetical scenario?
That Crimea was annexed after a referendum too.
Not if you count the invasions of each individual nation within NATO, including Germany, France, Italy, Britain, U.S. Put together, all of these nations have invaded a lot of countries on every continent.
That is, if we're going to make some sort of "contest" out of this.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
NATO had taken the Trip Wire approach to defending Europe. It's conventional forces were insufficient to deal with Soviet conventional forces. The purpose of NATO forces and the entire alliance itself was that if Russia attacked NATO, the US would unleash its nukes.
Subsequently, as Russia achieved nuclear parity, NATO had to beef up its ability to defend with conventional forces without resorting to nukes.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
Sure it would, I doubt they have placed those capable of returning fire in a place well known to the US and in one location. Also I would expect that their own missiles can be fired within a few minutes should they need it.
As I wrote to someone else, its not purely Russia fault (not talking Ukraine here), but this whole keeping the cold war alive. In NATOs defense those, its not exactly as if Russia give those countries around them a lot of options here, we have seen what happens to countries that isn't in NATO and which Russia have an interest in, they are getting taken over by them and their government replaced with a pro Russian puppet. And as we have seen demonstrated here in the Ukrainian conflict, is that Russia is not to concerned about just moving troop in if they feel like it. At least you don't see NATO forces invading countries and forcing them to join.
Its not about dismissing Russian concerns, but seriously most countries in the world are surrounded by countries with nuclear weapons. And apparently that is just completely accepted because they are not the US, China, Russia or part of the EU. So these countries just have to accept it because they are just small unimportant countries, that shouldn't complain or interfere when the big boys are playing. But the moment these big countries feel a bit violated, then we have to fully understand why that is a huge problem and that it is also unacceptable. I don't give a rats *** if the US, EU, China or Russia think this is hurting their feeling or security, when all other countries live with this threat every single day.
If the rest of the world lets Putin, for lack of a better word, take Ukraine, it wouldn't just end, right? Before World War II, other nations negotiated with Adolf Hitler to allow Germany to take pieces of other nations, but he didn't stop.
That's exactly the problem, because what this looks like is not just Ukraine. It's really threatening the whole [post-World War II] order in Europe, or the post-Cold War order.
Maybe in the U.S. we have the luxury and the privilege of not worrying that we're going to be taken over by Russian troops. But I think a lot of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union doesn't have that luxury right now.
Conflict In Ukraine: Clark U Russian Politics Expert Explains | Worcester, MA Patch
That's exactly the problem, because what this looks like is not just Ukraine. It's really threatening the whole [post-World War II] order in Europe, or the post-Cold War order.
Maybe in the U.S. we have the luxury and the privilege of not worrying that we're going to be taken over by Russian troops. But I think a lot of Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union doesn't have that luxury right now.
Conflict In Ukraine: Clark U Russian Politics Expert Explains | Worcester, MA Patch
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Sweden and Finland may soon be joining NATO. Switzerland is abandoning its historical neutrality and is contemplating seizing Russian assets in Swiss banks.