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Is Russia loosing support?

Martin

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
Stevicus said:
Not sure that 80 years ago would make that much of a difference. Look at how people in America recently have been refighting the Civil War, and that was 160 years ago.
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Another demonstration of how destructive it is to be stuck in the past.
 
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Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Nimos said:
Just read that Russia in the UN obviously claim that they have not done anything wrong and have vetoed the security resolution, which is expected. But the UN ambassador from Russia Vasilij Nebenzja "Would like to thank all the countries that didn't support the security resolution" only thing is there were none :D

China and the the United Arab Emirates abstained from voting, which is sort of a slap in the face for Russia I would say. Clearly these countries don't want to get to involved in this mess Putin have created and for good reasons, I think. Obviously I don't think it means anything in the big picture, but still it must hurt a little bit that no one cared to support them.
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I think China is learning that political instability is bad for its businesses. China exported about 383 billion Euros of goods to Europe in 2020 and that number continues to rise. Europe has a 180 billion dollar trade deficit with China.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
ajay0 said:
I am not fond of Putin myself, whom I see as a mediocre statesman and excellent politician with an hawkish air around him, cleverly exploiting the insecurities of Russians upon the encroaching U.S-Nato alliance.

It was the Russians themselves who deposed of Napoleon's dictatorship, ended feudalism and created the russian republic, ended the Nazi war machine permanently, and deposed off the communist hardliner coup in favor of democracy.

Left alone by the U.S.-Nato, similarly the russians will soon get tired of Putin and get rid off him from office as well.

Last year, the independent Russian newspaper Novaya gazeta, and Maria Ressa of the Filipino news website Rappler won the Nobel peace award “for their efforts to safeguard freedom of expression, which is a precondition for democracy and lasting peace,” the Norwegian Nobel Committee said when announcing the prize in 2021.

I think, given proper space and time, democracy and freedom has a better chance of evolving to their full potential in Russia than in the U.S. and Europe, where plutocratic entities dictate government policies under the guise of democracy.
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It was the Russians who starved millions of Ukrainians in the 30's. You seem to conveniently have forgotten that.
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Wandering Monk said:
It was the Russians who starved millions of Ukrainians in the 30's. You seem to conveniently have forgotten that.
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Sure about that?

Fraud Famine and Fascism the Ukrainian Genocide Myth: Tottle, Douglas: 9780919396517: Amazon.com: Books

From the reviews:

I always hear this argument that the soviets intentionally starved Ukrainians, for what reason I have no idea. Attacking your own people only weakens your position of power, it does not strengthen it. This book outlines basically why the Holodomor is bull****, yes the famine did happen but it was not intentional. This was written long before scholars like Mark Tauger literally proved that this was not an intentional famine at all. So it is prophetic to a certain degree. But even a casual look at the soviet archives reveals that the soviets actually sent more food aid to the Ukraine than anywhere else during the famine, so if you are looking to intentionally starve people, why on earth were they sending them literally tons of food? This book was ahead of its time and proves that the soviets did not cause the famine but in fact solved the recurring famine crisis that plagued Russia for several centuries, as this was one of many, many famines to strike Russia in its history. But for some reason its the only one ever mentioned. Probably because the Tsars were capitalists and were exporting grain during famines rather than importing, so that looks bad.
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Tottle has uncovered fraudulent use of photographs in the film "Harvest of Despair", and exposes many lies in claims about "deliberate Soviet genocide against Ukrainians." In short, there was none.
Tottle's research is excellent. This gives the book great value for anyone, regardless of political persuasion, who is interested in the truth.
Tottle has a pro-Soviet bias. Many writers on this topic have an anti-Soviet, anti-communist, or right-wing Ukrainian Nationalist bias. The reader can put the biases themselves aside.

But, without reading works from very different points of view, it's impossible to be exposed to all the evidence that exists. That's what makes this book a good counterpose to, say, Robert Conquest's _Harvest of Sorrow_. Tottle is pro-Soviet, Conquest anti-Soviet. I find Tottle's research to be far more solid, however.

No one denies there was a serious famine -- though it wasn't only in the Ukraine. The scholarly works of Mark Tauger are really the 'last word' on this subject, and they are as politically neutral as it's possible to be. But Tottle's work is a valuable corrective to the Uk. Nationalist "party line", which usually dominates in the Western media and classes. The Cold War isn't dead - not by a long shot!
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Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Wandering Monk said:
Yes, I am sure about that. But, you seem to prefer alternate realities pushed by the Russians.

Douglas Tottle - Wikipedia
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There's no evidence of any intentional desire to create a famine. Yes, the famine did happen, but it was unintentional. If anything, it was caused by the greedy kulaks who burned their own crops, slaughtered their own livestock, and ate all their seed grain because they didn't think the state was paying them enough.

Speaking of alternate realities, where is your evidence? Can you produce any document signed by Stalin that says "I want to kill all the Ukrainian people by deliberately starving them to death"? If you can't produce anything like that, then your claim is without evidence.

Besides, even if Stalin was guilty of fomenting a genocide, then you'd have to blame it on the Georgians, not the Russians. Stalin was Georgian. I'll bet you didn't know that either.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Stevicus said:
There's no evidence of any intentional desire to create a famine. Yes, the famine did happen, but it was unintentional. If anything, it was caused by the greedy kulaks who burned their own crops, slaughtered their own livestock, and ate all their seed grain because they didn't think the state was paying them enough.

Speaking of alternate realities, where is your evidence? Can you produce any document signed by Stalin that says "I want to kill all the Ukrainian people by deliberately starving them to death"? If you can't produce anything like that, then your claim is without evidence.

Besides, even if Stalin was guilty of fomenting a genocide, then you'd have to blame it on the Georgians, not the Russians. Stalin was Georgian. I'll bet you didn't know that either.
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Just an 'oops' then by a Communist dictator? Pathetic apologism. Who are you going to defend next? Mao's Great Leap Forward? How about Soviets crushing the Prague Spring or their invasion of Hungary in 1956 to crush that country as it tried to get out from under Communist oppression.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
In the news....
'Adolf Putin' graffiti in Russia amid fury at president 'acting like Hitler'
Excerpted...
FURIOUS Russians protesting Vladimir Putin's violent invasion of Ukraine have scrawled graffiti comparing their hardman President to Nazi monster Adolf Hitler.

Demonstrations against Russia's leader have spread around the world in the wake of two days of fierce fighting, which have led to the killing or capture of at least 2,800 Russian soldiers.



Graffiti comparing Putin to Hitler scrawled in a Saint Petersburg metro stationCredit: Not known, clear with picture desk


Protests against Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine have broken out across the worldCredit: Rex


Protesters in Israel branded the Russian President a war criminalCredit: EPA


After more than 1,500 people were detained following mass protests in Russia, a demonstrator scrawled "Adolf Putin" on the wall of an underground station in Saint Petersburg, the Russian President's hometown.

In the capital Moscow, protesters carried placards reading "No war. Putin, go away," and posters comparing him to Hitler.

It comes as the European Union said on Friday that Vladimir Putin's actions were comparable to those of the Nazis during World War Two.

"He is talking about de-Nazifying Ukraine, but he behaves like Nazis. So this is all in his head," EU spokesman Peter Stano told reporters in Brussels.

Stano was asked about Putin's supposed war aims, including his repeated claim that Russia's invasion was to prevent a "genocide" against Russian speakers in Ukraine.

"He's always saying something about preventing genocide, which is total nonsense because he is committing one or he is about to commit one," Stano said.

Among the high-profile Russian critics of Putin's war is the daughter of Chelsea's owner Roman Abramovich.

Sofia Abramovich, 27, posted an Instagram picture that read: "Putin wants a war with Ukraine," crossing out the word Russia.

"The biggest and most successful lie of Kremlin's propaganda is that most Russian stand with Putin [sic]," the post went on.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Revoltingest said:
In the news....
'Adolf Putin' graffiti in Russia amid fury at president 'acting like Hitler'
Excerpted...
FURIOUS Russians protesting Vladimir Putin's violent invasion of Ukraine have scrawled graffiti comparing their hardman President to Nazi monster Adolf Hitler.

Demonstrations against Russia's leader have spread around the world in the wake of two days of fierce fighting, which have led to the killing or capture of at least 2,800 Russian soldiers.


13
Graffiti comparing Putin to Hitler scrawled in a Saint Petersburg metro stationCredit: Not known, clear with picture desk

13
Protests against Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine have broken out across the worldCredit: Rex

13
Protesters in Israel branded the Russian President a war criminalCredit: EPA

13
After more than 1,500 people were detained following mass protests in Russia, a demonstrator scrawled "Adolf Putin" on the wall of an underground station in Saint Petersburg, the Russian President's hometown.

In the capital Moscow, protesters carried placards reading "No war. Putin, go away," and posters comparing him to Hitler.

It comes as the European Union said on Friday that Vladimir Putin's actions were comparable to those of the Nazis during World War Two.

"He is talking about de-Nazifying Ukraine, but he behaves like Nazis. So this is all in his head," EU spokesman Peter Stano told reporters in Brussels.


Stano was asked about Putin's supposed war aims, including his repeated claim that Russia's invasion was to prevent a "genocide" against Russian speakers in Ukraine.

"He's always saying something about preventing genocide, which is total nonsense because he is committing one or he is about to commit one," Stano said.

Among the high-profile Russian critics of Putin's war is the daughter of Chelsea's owner Roman Abramovich.

Sofia Abramovich, 27, posted an Instagram picture that read: "Putin wants a war with Ukraine," crossing out the word Russia.


"The biggest and most successful lie of Kremlin's propaganda is that most Russian stand with Putin [sic]," the post went on.
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The children of oligarchs mentioned in the story are part of the family business in Russia. Their objections are probably not from altruism.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
We are living in times when EVERYONE has a video camera in their pocket. Harder to get away with propaganda than in the past.
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Wandering Monk said:
Just an 'oops' then by a Communist dictator? Pathetic apologism. Who are you going to defend next? Mao's Great Leap Forward? How about Soviets crushing the Prague Spring or their invasion of Hungary in 1956 to crush that country as it tried to get out from under Communist oppression.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you might consider taking a few deep breaths, calm down, and rethink what you just wrote here.

At the very least, if you're going to accuse an entire nationality of crimes against humanity, you might consider providing evidence of such.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Stevicus said:
Perhaps you might consider taking a few deep breaths, calm down, and rethink what you just wrote here.

At the very least, if you're going to accuse an entire nationality of crimes against humanity, you might consider providing evidence of such.
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You are right. I should referred to totalitarian communist dictators in Russia and China.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
I too believe in the Ukrainian genocide.
There are documents and photographs.
And it shows how devilish Bolshevism and Stalinism were.
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That's the beauty of socialism....even on occasion
when famine isn't intentional, it still happens, even
setting new records, eg, 1959-61 in China.
 
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