Is Satan Ruling the World?

[outhouse]

The devil, satan, ect ect ect is mythology by my research and doesn't exist outside the cover of the book that holds his description.

The only power he has, is over those that open the books and thinks he really exist.

 

[EtuMalku]

The devil, satan, ect ect ect is mythology by my research and doesn't exist outside the cover of the book that holds his description.

The only power he has, is over those that open the books and thinks he really exist.

I agree for the most part with you, but there is more to it in my mind.

Obviously Satan is not the anti-Christian boogeyman created by the Judeo-Christian world. He is much more than that Abrahamic name, Satan has always existed, only under other names and guises, Satan is a powerful and primordial archetype of man's psyche . . . a meme, or what some may now call a godform (I think P. Carroll uses that term).

This archetype is the reflection of how we perceive ourselves in relation to what we call the "others". Satan is a social and cultural phenomenon as old as the mind of humanity itself. There has always and will always, be essentially two worldviews consisting of oppositions and they are "Us & Them" or "Me" and "the rest of you" . . . etc.

Sumerian and Akkadian tablets concur this worldview from the earliest known writings, the ancient Egyptian word for an Egyptian meant "human", the Greek word for non-Greeks was "barbaroi". The Jewish Essenes called non-Essenes "ha satan" (adversary), Zoroastrianism set forth the dualistic "good" (what we believe in) and "evil" (what they believe in).

"A society does not simply discover its others, it fabricates them, by selecting, isolating, and emphasizing as aspect of another people's life, and making it symbolize their difference" - William Scott Green (Professor of the history of religion - ancient Judaism, biblical studies, and the theory of religion).


So, who/what is this Satan? He is who you are not!

 

[Quagmire]

I just equate Satan with the human ego.

So yeah, he's the prime mover in a helluva lot of people's worlds.

 

[AllanV]

Satan is a word used to describe what goes on in all human interaction. One penalty for being separated from God and having own individual mind driven along by the self is a bonding in the mind with others in familiar emotional response with some power.
The mind affects the brain and the brain produces feelings and actions of the body.

People can affect each other just with a few words. The bible reads that rebellion is as witchcraft and this is saying that because humans are separated from Knowing God then they are rebellious and have witchcraft type abilities. People are able to get into each others minds and mess them up. Tell me this doesn't happen.

In the normal thoughts there are sometimes temptations and promptings to act out. This can also be in conversation. The rebellious self is encumbered with violent nasty traits if it is offended and will always look for justification. This is Satan at work and is the definition of the word. There is no excuse for behavior but if one is a son of Satan only condemnation and final death are apparent.

The Bible message is that there is a way to escape the Kingdom of Satan

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your god enables and allows, if not directly employs Satan to do HIS dirty work.

He allows him to exist and to tempt us but that's about it. It's the same as how God allows us make our own decisions about whether we will do wrong or right.

That's a coward in my book. In your book god either directly or indirectly kills millions of people, while Satan none, unless under the orders of god. Now, who is the Evil here?

There are worse things than death.

The Gnostics believed Christians were fooled into thinking what appears to them as a loving and just god is really the evil demiurge . . . if the shoe fits!

I'm supposed to care what some Gnostic sects thought about God the Father? Our understanding of God has grown throughout human history.

 

[Sleeppy]

The devil, satan, ect ect ect is mythology by my research and doesn't exist outside the cover of the book that holds his description.

The only power he has, is over those that open the books and thinks he really exist.

Except what you say doesn't exist, does in fact exist. Satan is a description of real experiences/perceptions.

The problem you, and other people have, is that you aren't able to look beyond specific words to find synonyms and parallels suitable for your understanding.

 

[Yadon]

As I had said before, "Satan" might rule the earth if it's symbolic of abstractions. And I've seen several people talk about abstractions.

But the original poster asked it in a kind of literal way. I see a lot of people talking but not much back and forth.

We could talk about what qualities that are attributed to Satan as to what ones rule the world but at the end of the day we are just inventing another box that only exists in the linguistic and artistic context we put it in.

 

[McBell]

There are worse things than death.

Ouch.

Hope that ain't the best you got.

 

[Quagmire]

As I had said before, "Satan" might rule the earth if it's symbolic of abstractions. And I've seen several people talk about abstractions.

The world is ruled by abstractions.

 

[Yadon]

The world is ruled by abstractions.

Yes but which ones would we say rule the world? Make it spin and motivates people and governments?

I think that conversation would be much more direct, it would at least cut out the middleman of symbolism that would get in the way and confuse.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ouch.

Hope that ain't the best you got.

I don't necessarily think that all those killings in the OT literally happened, anyway. The Hebrew Bible is the national epic of the Jewish people and is written from their point of view. It is really about humanity trying to understand God and draw closer to Him, but failing much of the time. What really matters are the underlying meanings of the stories.

But, yes. There are worse things than death. But we never really die, anyway. It is only the corporeal flesh that passes away.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Yes but which ones would we say rule the world? Make it spin and motivates people and governments?

 

[EtuMalku]

He allows him to exist and to tempt us but that's about it. It's the same as how God allows us make our own decisions about whether we will do wrong or right.

There is just something SO WRONG with "allows us make our own decisions" . . . :foot:

I'm supposed to care what some Gnostic sects thought about God the Father? Our understanding of God has grown throughout human history.

Of course you're not suppose to, that might ruin your devotion to a delusion. Yes, the world's understanding of this delusion called god has evolved over time, more and more of us are seeing through this veil of oppression, and academic institutions are explaining His Almighty away more & more every year.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is just something SO WRONG with "allows us make our own decisions" . . . :foot:

And what would that be?

Of course you're not suppose to, that might ruin your devotion to a delusion. Yes, the world's understanding of this delusion called god has evolved over time, more and more of us are seeing through this veil of oppression, and academic institutions are explaining His Almighty away more & more every year.

Since you are a Satanist, I would expect you to say nonsense like that. I was once a Satanist, too, when I was hatefully angry at God. But that's not a good way to live.

 

[Quagmire]

Yes but which ones would we say rule the world?

I think you may have missed my point. I'm not saying the world is ruled by any particular abstractions or set thereof. I was proposing that the human world is ruled (and created) by abstraction: the process itself.

Make it spin and motivates people and governments?

Too many and too varied to name.

I think that conversation would be much more direct, it would at least cut out the middleman of symbolism that would get in the way and confuse.

Symbolism only confuses people when they take it literally.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Indeed. Mammon is the true god of the modern world. I always looked at that as the true meaning of "In God we trust" being printed on US currency.

 

[EtuMalku]

And what would that be?

"Allowing us" to make our own decisions is not the same as us making our own decisions because obviously there is a punishment involved for not doing god's way. That is called blackmail.

Since you are a Satanist, I would expect you to say nonsense like that. I was once a Satanist, too, when I was hatefully angry at God. But that's not a good way to live.

I never said I was a Satanist, why would you think that? I'm not hateful or angry with your god, how can you be any of those things with something that is fictional, or at most an archetypal structure?

Do you really think believing in something that does not exist would not be the real nonsense and irrationality? You have absolutely no evidence other than one book written by a bunch of unknown authors who were obviously men.

 

[Sleeppy]

Luke 4:5,6 says:"he [the Devil] brought him [Jesus] up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish." This seems to show the Devil controls the governments. Do you think the Devil controls the world? Why or why not?

Is there anything that God does not control?


Satan is a very specific description which only results from limited perceptions/egos. He does not exist outside of limited perception, nor does he control or do anything.

John 6:44
No one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

John 19:11
Jesus answered, 'Thou wouldest have no authority against me, if it were not having been given thee from above; because of this, he who is delivering me up to thee hath greater sin.'

John 14:30-31
I will no more talk much with you, for the ruler of this world doth come, and in me he hath nothing; but that the world may know that I love the Father, and according as the Father gave me command so I do; arise, we may go hence.


.. Things to contemplate.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

"Allowing us" to make our own decisions is not the same as us making our own decisions because obviously there is a punishment involved for not doing god's way. That is called blackmail.

Of course there are negative consequences for not following God's way, since God's way is love, compassion, forgiveness, mercy, hope and self-sacrifice. It is caring for others the same way you care for yourself. The opposite of that is hatred, selfishness, greed, despair, discord, conflict, out of control anger, harm, etc. We make our own decisions whether to do right or wrong and we accept the consequences for our actions.

I never said I was a Satanist, why would you think that? I'm not hateful or angry with your god, how can you be any of those things with something that is fictional, or at most an archetypal structure?

Do you really think believing in something that does not exist would not be the real nonsense and irrationality? You have absolutely no evidence other than one book written by a bunch of unknown authors who were obviously men.

Whether or not you personally identify as a Satanist, you spout the same things that many Satanists do and I do see you posting in the LHP DIR. You have also capitalized "him" when referring to Satan, so you obviously hold him in high regard.

Whether or not you view God as real or not, you obviously are very angry towards the concept of Him. You've done nothing but throw venom and insults at me. Yes, you are an angry person. That's how I was. I'm sorry you feel that way. But that's your choice.

 

[EtuMalku]

Is there anything that God does not control?


Satan is a very specific description which only results from limited perceptions/egos. He does not exist outside of limited perception, nor does he control or do anything.

John 6:44
No one is able to come unto me, if the Father who sent me may not draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

John 19:11 Jesus answered, 'Thou wouldest have no authority against me, if it were not having been given thee from above; because of this, he who is delivering me up to thee hath greater sin.'


.. Things to contemplate.

Makes me think of this . . .
1. The Devil is greater than nothing.
2. Nothing is greater than God.
3. Therefore, the Devil is greater than God.
:run: