Is Satan Ruling the World?

[Thana]

Perhaps later I will get bored enough to continue our exchange of petty insults or perhaps i will not.

Either way, have a nice day.

Oh and you have a wonderful day aswell <3

 

[EtuMalku]

Personally, I tend to avoid any form of Satanism, As I believe in the reality of the Devil, Demons and dark magic.
But I'm a curious person by nature, And I especially like to learn about 'unusual' religions, And the psychological attraction to them.

From my quick view of luciferianism on wikipedia, It says that they generally don't worship a deity?

So who is Lucifer?

Lucifer is an archetypal structure just like any other god, devil, demon, angel. Lucifer is a Principle to Luciferians not a person. Though there are theistic Luciferians. In addition to that, Luciferianism is not a form of Satanism, that is another misunderstanding among most Christians.

In fairness to you, Thana, some of the modern Bible commentators and preachers sell Lucifer as Satan, but some don't. In fairness though he was not considered to be Satan until Milton wrote his fictions Paradise Lost and Paradise Regained. After that it became popular to refer to the Satan as 'Lucifer', but people didn't start to take it seriously right away. I think the Christian commentators treat it as an idea with potential in a 'Midrashic' sense but not as an actual doctrine. Matthew Henry's commentary (three volumes) goes into detail about how the whole passage of Isaiah 14:3-23 is about the king of Babylon. (Matthew Henry published his commentary in 1710 and was a favorite of Charles Spurgeon. More current additions have been printed by Nelson bible publishers.) He devotes many paragraphs to Isaiah 14:3-23 but here is a sentence from him:

If I may add; "To this day, the Catholic Church does not see the word Lucifer as equivalent to Satan or even as something bad at all. There was even a Bishop who took on the ecclesiastical name Lucifer and was later canonized." - Jeremy Crow

 

[Thana]

Lucifer is an archetypal structure just like any other god, devil, demon, angel. Lucifer is a Principle to Luciferians not a person. Though there are theistic Luciferians. In addition to that, Luciferianism is not a form of Satanism, that is another misunderstanding among most Christians.

Satanism - the worship of Satan

I believe that worshipping one's self is a form of satanism.

"For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. They prize the wonders of nature and seek to connect with the natural world and the universe that humans inhabit, in order to move humankind forward through both physical and social evolution. Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one&#8217;s ultimate potential as opposed to bowing to the rules of a supernatural entity"

Luciferianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Correct me if I'm wrong, However.

 

[EtuMalku]

Satanism - the worship of Satan

I believe that worshipping one's self is a form of satanism.

"For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. They prize the wonders of nature and seek to connect with the natural world and the universe that humans inhabit, in order to move humankind forward through both physical and social evolution. Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential as opposed to bowing to the rules of a supernatural entity"

Luciferianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Correct me if I'm wrong, However.

You are not wrong. This is the basic difference between a Right Hand Path religion and a Left Hand Path one.

 

[AllanV]

Satanism - the worship of Satan

I believe that worshipping one's self is a form of satanism.


Luciferianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Correct me if I'm wrong, However.

Every person is worshiping their own self by degree and it is seen in the personality as it is revealed with many traits. It is difficult to see oneself as others do.

 

[AllanV]

You are not wrong. This is the basic difference between a Right Hand Path religion and a Left Hand Path one.

Because the self is loaded up with what is seen in personality the energy is impure. Every one has a sense or perception of another person or group and there are many faults. Most a learned and are made to be acceptable as a mortal. How is it possible to be pure when there is no mind pattern as an example. But Jesus has the pattern of mind that can be found.

 

[crossfire]

Satanism - the worship of Satan

I believe that worshipping one's self is a form of satanism.

What do you see demanding that others worship you as being?

 

[EtuMalku]

Because the self is loaded up with what is seen in personality the energy is impure. Every one has a sense or perception of another person or group and there are many faults. Most a learned and are made to be acceptable as a mortal. How is it possible to be pure when there is no mind pattern as an example. But Jesus has the pattern of mind that can be found.

It is common knowledge in psychology that we all tend to project our Shadow Self onto others and then dislike them because of that, where in reality it is our negative self that we are hating.

Individuation is a term applied to individuals that have successfully overcome their Shadow Self. In Luciferianism and other Beliefs Systems, there exists a higher Self that is our Perfect Being and a Dæmon / Holy Guardian Angel that nudges us towards absolution with our higher Self. There is no need for an external deity, for it is the path of truly following One's Will and not the Will of another.

I have no evidence that Jesus even existed, nothing has been found that was written by his hand, he is not present in any historical documents or artifacts, aside from the gospels, which were written by men. Therefore in Light of this, I cannot put any trust in what people say that Jesus said.

 

[EtuMalku]

What do you see demanding that others worship you as being?

Not to mention that . . . "
Originally Posted by Thana
Satanism - the worship of Satan

I believe that worshipping one's self is a form of satanism."

. . . Thana first proclaimed Satanism to be the worship of Satan and then said Satanism is the worshiping of one's self! I guess Satanism will fit any mold that Thana needs it to in order to demonize it? :angel2:

 

[Yadon]

I don't particuarly know why you oppose the fact that Lucifer is Satan,
I suppose it has something to do with your beliefs.

However, And in light of the information you provided,
I still see nothing that is definitive.
The meaning of the name lucifer varies, But generally is about something involving light or stars/bright.
And the bible constantly refers to light and stars/bright with Satan.

But if you prefer to see it as a misinterpretation, Then that's cool

Being a Luciferian, I would think so
Lucifer and Satan being irrelevant and insignificant in your religion is my exact point here. Lucifer was never meant to be included in Christian thought, through various media starting with the misinterpretation of the Vulgate and through Milton's Paradise Lost, Lucifer has been brainwashed into the Christian mind to coincide with Satan.

Salmu Azag is correct. It is less a matter of opinion and more a matter of the evolution of Christianity. Historically Lucifer was not equal to Satan, that idea is relatively new. As a matter of fact all New Testament usages of words such as "light bearer", "morning star" ect ect all refer to Jesus Christ.

The verse in Isaiah is a metaphor, comparing the King of Babylon to the planet Venus which literally rises at sunrise only to "be cast down", that is, to fall back down behind the Horizon as the sun rises. To the ancients planets were refereed to as stars.

Satanism - the worship of Satan

I believe that worshipping one's self is a form of satanism.

"For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. They prize the wonders of nature and seek to connect with the natural world and the universe that humans inhabit, in order to move humankind forward through both physical and social evolution. Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential as opposed to bowing to the rules of a supernatural entity"

Luciferianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Correct me if I'm wrong, However.

Worshiping one's self is more a form of egocentricism than Satanism, though many Satanists are guilty of such delusions such as egocentricism (as are a number of Luciferians).

That definition you gave from Wikipedia only represents those Luciferians who are archetypical in nature, and only one take on that archetype (albeit the most popular form of Luciferianism today). Historically Luciferianism was theistic and had several groups such as those influenced by the Ophite gnostics.

Another important group is arguably the Masons who favored secularism and a lot of ideas progressive for their day. Equality, democracy, religious freedom ect ect were opposed to the older views of a King that ruled with the permission of God or the church. Though Masons accept anyone that believes in a higher power, they are not explictly any religion. They actually identify most with Christianity and the Lucifer symbolism where it is seen (morning star, lightbearer) can be associated with Jesus Christ (for example Jesus said he was the Bright and Morning Star at the end of Revelation). The Order of the Eastern Star is one example of a very Christian, Bible based Masonic group that uses the symbolism of a light bearer. I've personally been to one of their temples before.

As a Luciferian myself I associate the idea/symbol of Lucifer as a more Promethean figure. Prometheus made a great personal sacrifice in order to bring mankind fire. The Greek gods feared how powerful man would become with fire and so Prometheus being the trickster-hero he was, stole it from the gods and gave it to man. For this he had his guts eaten out for thousands of years until Hercules freed him. So from that I take the lesson that one should be ready to make personal sacrifices if they want to improve their society, even when it might cause punishment from authority.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

What if you see yourself as God? as in, an ego-less representation of the Divine?

"Chidananda Rupah Shivoham Shivoham"

Then you find out you have been 'worshiping yourself' for many years but didn't know it?

....maybe this is what God didn't want Adam and Eve to find out...

Or maybe they knew 'Thou Art That' before Satan interferred, so all mankind's efforts were to realise this again...

Iono.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I can't believe there is a group calling themselves Luciferians. When I was a kid in the 70's that would have been in the news. "Luciferians!" Things have changed drastically since then. When I was little I helped picket against the equal rights amendment, the movie last temptation of christ and a few other things. What the he...ck is a Luciferian? I feel old.

You know, when I was a kid there was no such thing as Minecraft. Kids put Legos together with our fingers, and those Legos would make a pleasing 'Snap' when you pressed them together. Sorry if I'm getting off topic its just so...weird to see so many changes. I feel like someone who has witnessed the invention of dirt. Some of you probably don't even know what dirt is.

 

[Willamena]

Is Satan Ruling the World?

I hope so. Otherwise there would be no opponent, no yang.

 

[EtuMalku]

I can't believe there is a group calling themselves Luciferians. When I was a kid in the 70's that would have been in the news. "Luciferians!" Things have changed drastically since then. When I was little I helped picket against the equal rights amendment, the movie last temptation of christ and a few other things. What the he...ck is a Luciferian? I feel old.

You know, when I was a kid there was no such thing as Minecraft. Kids put Legos together with our fingers, and those Legos would make a pleasing 'Snap' when you pressed them together. Sorry if I'm getting off topic its just so...weird to see so many changes. I feel like someone who has witnessed the invention of dirt. Some of you probably don't even know what dirt is.

I was a kid in 60's so you're not as old as you think. What IS amazing is that you've never heard of Luciferianism and that there have been Luciferians for aeons. :shout

The Gesta Treverorum records that, in 1231, heretics began to be persecuted throughout Germany. Among them were Luciferians, principally in the Archdiocese of Trier, but also Mainz and Cologne. The 2nd century Gnostics had Luciferian sects. Lucifer being a Roman deity, I wouldn't be surprised if there were not a few Roman Luciferian cults. The angel deity Melek Taus of the ancient Yezidi is considered to be Lucifer, so you could say they are Luciferians. Today there are many Luciferian organizations.

 

[crossfire]

I was a kid in 60's so you're not as old as you think. What IS amazing is that you've never heard of Luciferianism and that there have been Luciferians for aeons. :shout

The Gesta Treverorum records that, in 1231, heretics began to be persecuted throughout Germany. Among them were Luciferians, principally in the Archdiocese of Trier, but also Mainz and Cologne. The 2nd century Gnostics had Luciferian sects. Lucifer being a Roman deity, I wouldn't be surprised if there were not a few Roman Luciferian cults. The angel deity Melek Taus of the ancient Yezidi is considered to be Lucifer, so you could say they are Luciferians. Today there are many Luciferian organizations.

If a tenet of Luciferianism is equality of the sexes, then the Yezidi are not Luciferian, although they do admit that Melek Taus is "the devil."

 

[EtuMalku]

If a tenet of Luciferianism is equality of the sexes, then the Yezidi are not Luciferian, although they do admit that Melek Taus is "the devil."

Yeah, the Yezidi were a bit if a stretch there

 

[nazz]

What if you see yourself as God? as in, an ego-less representation of the Divine?

"Chidananda Rupah Shivoham Shivoham"

Then you find out you have been 'worshiping yourself' for many years but didn't know it?

....maybe this is what God didn't want Adam and Eve to find out...

Or maybe they knew 'Thou Art That' before Satan interferred, so all mankind's efforts were to realise this again...

Iono.

From my panentheistic perspective everything is an expression of God. So in that sense I can agree. But the expression is also subdivided into many parts with God (in another sense) a separate being from me.

 

[nazz]

I can't believe there is a group calling themselves Luciferians. When I was a kid in the 70's that would have been in the news. "Luciferians!" Things have changed drastically since then. When I was little I helped picket against the equal rights amendment, the movie last temptation of christ and a few other things.

Oh, were you that guy outside Cinema 21 I gave a hard time about that?

 

[Thana]

. . . Thana first proclaimed Satanism to be the worship of Satan and then said Satanism is the worshiping of one's self! I guess Satanism will fit any mold that Thana needs it to in order to demonize it? :angel2:

If you understood Christianity you'd understand how worshipping oneself is the same as worshipping the devil, the world or idols.

Don't be patronizing, I've been nothing but polite.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Do you think the Devil controls the world? Why or why not?

No.

God is One, Supreme, and has no rival or equal! There is thus no "devil" out there trying to "get us."

And "satan" is simply our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.

Peace,

Bruce