is suicide moral?

[oldbadger]

Many scientists believe that our thoughts are often driven by hormones etc.
A person in depression can sometimes feel differently in a minute's, hour's or day's time.
A person who cannot face up to a problem might see it differently after a conversation.

There's nothing moral or immoral about any of this....... it's just a personal situation, although sometimes desperate suicides do not always think about the folks who have to clear all away.....

Which is why charities like 'The Samaritans' are so special. It must be a wonderful feeling to actually know that you changed a person's mind, and it must be a dreadful feeling to know for sure that you failed. Such certainties do sometimes occur......

 

[kashmir]

Many scientists believe that our thoughts are often driven by hormones etc.
A person in depression can sometimes feel differently in a minute's, hour's or day's time.
A person who cannot face up to a problem might see it differently after a conversation.

There's nothing moral or immoral about any of this....... it's just a personal situation, although sometimes desperate suicides do not always think about the folks who have to clear all away.....

Which is why charities like 'The Samaritans' are so special. It must be a wonderful feeling to actually know that you changed a person's mind, and it must be a dreadful feeling to know for sure that you failed. Such certainties do sometimes occur......

Perhaps, depends upon the person, if it's moral or not, if they leave loved ones behind

 

[oldbadger]

Perhaps, depends upon the person, if it's moral or not, if they leave loved ones behind

Ok...... I'm cool with that concept.

I knew a man quite well who committed suicide circa 1980. He must have been out of his mind. He blew his brains out in the bath with a shotgun. His wife found him.

Taking that as an example, I don't think that the question of morality arises, and this is why........

He was beyond reason of the mind. This is a condition that many Western Countries recognise as being beyond the law, beyond responsibility and therefore beyond judgement as such. Ergo...... madness takes the moral judgement out of the question.

How does that sound?

EDIT: must go to bed.....will see your answer soon.....

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Many scientists believe that our thoughts are often driven by hormones etc.
A person in depression can sometimes feel differently in a minute's, hour's or day's time.
A person who cannot face up to a problem might see it differently after a conversation.

There's nothing moral or immoral about any of this....... it's just a personal situation, although sometimes desperate suicides do not always think about the folks who have to clear all away.....

Which is why charities like 'The Samaritans' are so special. It must be a wonderful feeling to actually know that you changed a person's mind, and it must be a dreadful feeling to know for sure that you failed. Such certainties do sometimes occur......

Many evolutionary specialists I've read from blogs (not evolution biologists, because these are not actual scientists as far as I know) suggest that suicide's existence with evolution is rather a way to seek help rather than to actually end one's life, which would contradict the desire of further survival of the individual or at least the species.

So it's sad to think; considering that, suicide would be unwanted at the moment the victim realizes they're screwed. Imagine every person who kicked the chair from under them and their bodies violently fought for something to grab onto and their minds just watched their bodies act helplessly, instinctively, unconsciously.

 

[StarryNightshade]

If one is suffering and in great pain, with no chance of getting better, would it truly be immoral to allow them to die with dignity?

My answer is no.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

If one is suffering and in great pain, with no chance of getting better, would it truly be immoral to allow them to die with dignity?

My answer is no.

People have the right to die. It's probably a tough decision though. If one is fully willing, but has loved ones he doesn't want to hurt, it will be a lot rougher of a ride. The loved ones would work like chains heated to a hundred degrees, holding him back to life or a sting in the back as he feels it. He has to touch the burning chains to be free.

 

[StarryNightshade]

People have the right to die. It's probably a tough decision though. If one is fully willing, but has loved ones he doesn't want to hurt, it will be a lot rougher of a ride.

I agree.

 

[Penumbra]

Just wondering.
If a person is actually at that point in life, why should we stop them?
It's got to be pretty bad if a person rather just die and get it over with.

opinions?

Depends on circumstances.

Suicide attempts vastly outnumber completed suicides, so only a small percentage of people that attempt suicide go ahead and try it again. A lot of times people say how glad they are that they did not succeed.

So I think, usually, it's a good idea to try to stop them, given those odds. If they continue to want it, they'll find away to do it eventually, so I think the appropriate action is to try to stop them.

I'm in favor of allowing euthanasia if someone is terminally ill and in a lot of discomfort and specifically wants it. I think they should have that freedom.

 

[Gehennaite]

It is possible to toughen up given enough time & conscientious effort. However, death is inevitable and life isn't really that impressive to begin with, in my opinion.

I would never shame anyone for suicide. They have my utmost respect. After all, it is their life. There are plenty of contemptible things to do with one's life, but ending it prematurely does not strike me as one of those things.

 

[sun rise]

The posts so far in this thread assume suffering has no purpose. There are theological frames-of-reference where the purpose of suffering is to work off karma. This does not mean that people should practice extreme austerities. And it does not mean that we should ignore ordinary medical means of relieving suffering - because drugs which deal with extreme pain should be used. But it does imply something about dealing with suffering. And as Penumbra pointed out, many who fail to kill themselves are glad they failed.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, if you're killing yourself out of psychological issues like despair. I can understand being terminally ill and ending it, but depression is treatable. I wouldn't shame someone over it, though, because I've wanted to kill myself many times before and ended up in the ER because of it. I just think it's a very bad choice and think we should encourage people to choose life and to help them.

 

[sun rise]

Yes, if you're killing yourself out of psychological issues like despair. I can understand being terminally ill and ending it, but depression is treatable. I wouldn't shame someone over it, though, but I've wanted to kill myself many times before and ended up in the ER because of it. I just think it's a very bad choice and think we should encourage people to choose life and to help them.

That makes perfect sense to me. Whether the suffering is mental or physical, help should always be there for people.

 

[Maldini]

I never suggest it to anyone, and I'll try to stop people form doing it, but if they manage to do it i won't judge them and I won't blame them. It's their life, the right to end it seems default to me.

 

[oldbadger]

Many evolutionary specialists I've read from blogs (not evolution biologists, because these are not actual scientists as far as I know) suggest that suicide's existence with evolution is rather a way to seek help rather than to actually end one's life, which would contradict the desire of further survival of the individual or at least the species.

So it's sad to think; considering that, suicide would be unwanted at the moment the victim realizes they're screwed. Imagine every person who kicked the chair from under them and their bodies violently fought for something to grab onto and their minds just watched their bodies act helplessly, instinctively, unconsciously.

What you are describing could be a form of suicide risk. This is quite different from suicide intention. When somebody throws themself in front of an underground tube, this is not a cry for help.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, if you're killing yourself out of psychological issues like despair. I can understand being terminally ill and ending it, but depression is treatable. I wouldn't shame someone over it, though, because I've wanted to kill myself many times before and ended up in the ER because of it. I just think it's a very bad choice and think we should encourage people to choose life and to help them.

........... and think we should encourage people to choose life and to help them.

Your words above. These^^^^
Question, have you ever thought of giving time to train with and do voluntary work for your own local 'Samaritans' charity?

 

[kashmir]

Ok...... I'm cool with that concept.

I knew a man quite well who committed suicide circa 1980. He must have been out of his mind. He blew his brains out in the bath with a shotgun. His wife found him.

Taking that as an example, I don't think that the question of morality arises, and this is why........

He was beyond reason of the mind. This is a condition that many Western Countries recognise as being beyond the law, beyond responsibility and therefore beyond judgement as such. Ergo...... madness takes the moral judgement out of the question.

How does that sound?

EDIT: must go to bed.....will see your answer soon.....

but he left ppl behind

 

[kashmir]

........... and think we should encourage people to choose life and to help them.

Your words above. These^^^^
Question, have you ever thought of giving time to train with and do voluntary work for your own local 'Samaritans' charity?

Thts what i say

 

[kashmir]

What you are describing could be a form of suicide risk. This is quite different from suicide intention. When somebody throws themself in front of an underground tube, this is not a cry for help.

thats what I say

 

[kashmir]

That makes perfect sense to me. Whether the suffering is mental or physical, help should always be there for people.

You believe that happens?

 

[kashmir]

Yes, if you're killing yourself out of psychological issues like despair. I can understand being terminally ill and ending it, but depression is treatable. I wouldn't shame someone over it, though, because I've wanted to kill myself many times before and ended up in the ER because of it. I just think it's a very bad choice and think we should encourage people to choose life and to help them.

I just want to be remembered