What did he quote??? Read the gospels man, OT quotes are everywhere. I did some quick googling to try to find a list of all of his references and quotes, but I couldn't find anything complete. I'm not sure that you are trying to say that he didn't quote the OT though. Maybe you are just saying that him quoting the OT doesn't mean anything??? What about his lack of saying anything about it being wrong in any way? In fact, at one point, he uses the solidity of the scriptures as the basis for his argument...
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Is the Abrahamic God Moral?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
What did he quote??? Read the gospels man, OT quotes are everywhere. I did some quick googling to try to find a list of all of his references and quotes, but I couldn't find anything complete. I'm not sure that you are trying to say that he didn't quote the OT though. Maybe you are just saying that him quoting the OT doesn't mean anything??? What about his lack of saying anything about it being wrong in any way? In fact, at one point, he uses the solidity of the scriptures as the basis for his argument...
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Go and READ what he quoted. I am not saying that he didn't quote the OT, I am asking you to read those very quotes. VERY revealing.
Why would he say it's "wrong"? It's a blog! It's a record of Isreals' feelings and emotions. It's not "wrong", but then it's not particularly an accurate portrayal of God. Jesus even pointed this out:
Matthew 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. NIV
An obvious reference to the Ten Commandments, and here Jesus corrects their understanding of the precept. The New Testament is replete with these types of statements.
Jesus didn't deify the scriptures in a manner consistent with many Christians today. But if you want to grasp at straws in order to criticize, who am I to stop you?
Why would he say it's "wrong"? It's a blog! It's a record of Isreals' feelings and emotions. It's not "wrong", but then it's not particularly an accurate portrayal of God. Jesus even pointed this out:
Matthew 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. NIV
An obvious reference to the Ten Commandments, and here Jesus corrects their understanding of the precept. The New Testament is replete with these types of statements.
Jesus didn't deify the scriptures in a manner consistent with many Christians today. But if you want to grasp at straws in order to criticize, who am I to stop you?
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
That would also depend on who is channeling it.
rojse
RF Addict
People have tried to create morals that obey the precepts of God, so I will say yes... and no.
rojse
RF Addict
If we used the idea of God to justify our own deeds, how come it took several thousand years for him to actually set the record straight?
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Who says he hasn't set the story straight a million times or more? That doesn't stop man from twisting the story a million times as well. Look at Jesus' message: LOVE EACH OTHER. Then came the crusades and the inquisition. How on earth can ANYONE say THOSE actions are consistent with Christ's teachings?
We hear what we want to hear. We see what we want to see. Look at how many Republicans are still justifying Shrub &Co's actions and they do it WITH a straight face. They really believe the crap they are shoveling at us! Man's ability to justify his horrific actions against his fellow man is remarkable. That he uses God as his scapegoat is as deplorable as it is predictable.
Smoke
Done here.
No. Blood sacrifice and genocide are among the commandments of Judaism. Violent jihad is one of the commandments of Islam. Christianity invented the concept of the just war and appropriated the Muslim concept of jihad to come up with the Crusade. The members of all three religions have oppressed members of other religions whenever and wherever they've had the opportunity to do so. The Baha'i faith was born of a bloody struggle among the followers of the Bab. All four religions are authoritarian, sexist, and homophobic. If the Abrahamic god is moral, very little of it's rubbed off on his followers.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
kai
ragamuffin
yes thats my point compared to other species which are culled by predators, we were not ,now except for ourselves we have no predators ,so we have moved outside the boundaries of natural selection and have just bred like an out of control bacteria or disease all over the earth
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
Natural selection is not just concerned with one's place in the food chain.
We have plenty of predators including the flu virus, Ebola, and AIDS virus.
We stepped out of the box of evolution the first time we made tools to live longer, clothes to keep us warm, fire to cook and eliminate some parasites.
Mankind is no longer subject to evolution because we do not react to our environment. Our environment is changed to suit our needs.
We have become so widespread as an organism because we control our environment.
Regards,
Scott
kai
ragamuffin
i agree but we continuosly destroy our preditors or find defences against them like flu ,ebola and aids, we are outside the laws of nature in that sense .
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
gnostic
The Lost One
The wager in Book of Job and ordering Saul (1 Samuel 15) to massacre of all Amalekites (including women, elderly and children) for the sins of previous generation (in Moses' time), showed that this god doesn't haven't moral in his divine bones.
The NT examples are that anyone who don't worship him, or that of not converting to the new religion, or that committing even smallest of sins, would earn a person one-way reservation into hell's lake of fire, to be torment for all eternity, showed that god is hardly just.
And rapists and murderers can get away with it, earning God's forgiveness/absolution, just simply through conversion, baptism and repentance, is downright disgusting.
The NT examples are that anyone who don't worship him, or that of not converting to the new religion, or that committing even smallest of sins, would earn a person one-way reservation into hell's lake of fire, to be torment for all eternity, showed that god is hardly just.
And rapists and murderers can get away with it, earning God's forgiveness/absolution, just simply through conversion, baptism and repentance, is downright disgusting.
I was not criticizing in the least.
Smoke
Done here.
Conflict among the Babis, with two dozen of them claiming to be the Bab's successor; murder of Dayyan; Baha'u'llah poisoned by Azal's followers; Azal's followers murdered by Baha'u'llah's followers. Babism after the death of the Bab wasn't exactly a festival of peace, love, and understanding.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
You named three deaths and one attempted death. There were probably a handful of killings in Persia at the behest of Mirza Yahya (Subhi Azal) who was also Baha`u'llah's younger half-brother. Subhi Azal also attempted to suborn Baha`u'llah's barber into cutting his throat, which was reported to Abdu'l Baha by the barber.
Of course the majority were AFTER Baha`u'llah laid claim to be the He Whom God Would Make Manifest, and were in reaction to that claim by him. Mirza Yahya's ineptness as a leader of the Cause sparked a number of such claims during the period of Baha`u'llah's withdrawal in to the mountains of Sulamaniyyih in (1860ish). The death of Dayyan and the followers of Azal killed in Akka were after 1868. By then there were only two claimants to the station of Manifestation.
Mirza Yahya passed away in the early 1900's having lived so withdrawn from any of his earlier claims that they buried him as a Muslim in a pauper's grave.
The only true "blood bath" in the history of the faith was the fate of as many as 20,000 believers dead at the hands of the Shah of Iran and the clergy of Shi'ih Islam between 1850 and 1952 CE.
Regards,
Scott
kai
ragamuffin
you are right, its so easy to go off on a tangent.
Smoke
Done here.
I was referring to more than that, and there were other murders I didn't refer to, all of them committed by Baha'u'llah's followers -- although several unsuccessful attempts were made on Baha'u'llah's life by his opponents.
I'm not sure how that makes things better.
I agree that the number of Azalis killed by Baha'is pales beside the number of Baha'is killed by Muslims, and I don't really want to get drawn into a long discussion about the Baha'is and the Babis. I agree that Baha'is have been far less violent than the other Abrahamic religions, and what I said about authoritarianism, sexism, and homophobia would probably have sufficed.